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Team Defense.... Why is this not taken into consideration?

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Team Defense.... Why is this not taken into consideration?

Postby Drdobs » Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:51 am

When ranking pitchers I rarely find that people take the team defense into consideration, yet everybody talks about the type of ballpark they play in. I'd like to see a solid ranking of team defense and base some of my pitcher aquisitions on that.

I figure, I'd rather have a pitcher with a above average defense behind him in a neutral park than have a pitcher with a poor defense in a pitchers park.

It's just an area that seems largely neglected and I'm curious if anybody else out there agrees?

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Re: Team Defense.... Why is this not taken into consideration?

Postby Ender » Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:02 am

Drdobs wrote:When ranking pitchers I rarely find that people take the team defense into consideration, yet everybody talks about the type of ballpark they play in. I'd like to see a solid ranking of team defense and base some of my pitcher aquisitions on that.

I figure, I'd rather have a pitcher with a above average defense behind him in a neutral park than have a pitcher with a poor defense in a pitchers park.

It's just an area that seems largely neglected and I'm curious if anybody else out there agrees?

Jon


I agree, there just isn't a good metric for measuring defense. They all vary wildly on who is good and who is bad. You have to kind of wing it when it comes to defense.
Last edited by Ender on Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dannahann » Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:25 am

I believe many of the main industry sources already do factor team defense in when coming up with their projections and rankings. Obviously it's not going to be a MAJOR factor tho. Things like talent, opportunity, ballpark and divisional hitters are going to probably weigh more in most instances. A recent example where I noticed some movement in projections was the Orlando Hudson trade to AZ. Webb and Batista both sinkerballers got a minor boost from some sources soley because of Hudson.
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Postby Thursday » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:24 pm

Eh, it's a non-factor. As long as the team behind the pitcher is playing the position they've played their entire lives, then there really isn't going to be a problem. These guys are major leaguers for a reason. Besides, if they boot a ball or two, the runs will be unearned, and won't count on your pitcher's ERA anyway. Don't think too hard about team defense, it's really unneccesary.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:27 pm

I only time I would take a serious looks at team defense is if the pitcher is an extreme groundball pitcher such as Webb, Westbrook, Lowe and Mulder.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:41 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:I only time I would take a serious looks at team defense is if the pitcher is an extreme groundball pitcher such as Webb, Westbrook, Lowe and Mulder.


And then you look hard at Turf vs Grass (thinkness as well). :-D
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Postby stevethumb » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:47 pm

Thursday wrote:Eh, it's a non-factor. As long as the team behind the pitcher is playing the position they've played their entire lives, then there really isn't going to be a problem. These guys are major leaguers for a reason. Besides, if they boot a ball or two, the runs will be unearned, and won't count on your pitcher's ERA anyway. Don't think too hard about team defense, it's really unneccesary.
...that's a tad simplistic...more important is the double play that doesnt get turned or the fly ball that the 40 yr old OF (see SF) can't get to...those are NOT unearned runs and cause great harm to apitchers whip, era and chance for a W .. when it's a close call between 2 pitchers i will factor in team defense
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:04 pm

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/stati ... ?cid=69978

You could use this as a guide. I agree that it effects GB pitchers the most. Webb seems like the sp who might benefit the most basing it on defense.
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Postby Drdobs » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:30 pm

Thursday wrote:Eh, it's a non-factor. As long as the team behind the pitcher is playing the position they've played their entire lives, then there really isn't going to be a problem. These guys are major leaguers for a reason. Besides, if they boot a ball or two, the runs will be unearned, and won't count on your pitcher's ERA anyway. Don't think too hard about team defense, it's really unneccesary.


Wow, to me... this quote might as well be...

"Don't worry too much about what 1st baseman you draft, essentially as long as the guy has been playing baseball his entire life at that position, he's probably going to be a pretty good hitter and it may only be a difference of a few hits here and a few hits there"

I mean, I'm sorry but I can't help but disagree with this post tremendously. I think it matters GREATLY how strong the defense is and the reality is that it's not about booting balls for Unearned Runs, but about balls that are got to that otherwise wouldn't. Besides, just because a guy boots a ball doesn't mean the pitcher is not subject to more walks and hits in the inning that hurt the WHIP and hurt his chances for a win...
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Postby Matthias » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:04 pm

Drdobs wrote:
Thursday wrote:Eh, it's a non-factor. As long as the team behind the pitcher is playing the position they've played their entire lives, then there really isn't going to be a problem. These guys are major leaguers for a reason. Besides, if they boot a ball or two, the runs will be unearned, and won't count on your pitcher's ERA anyway. Don't think too hard about team defense, it's really unneccesary.


Wow, to me... this quote might as well be...

"Don't worry too much about what 1st baseman you draft, essentially as long as the guy has been playing baseball his entire life at that position, he's probably going to be a pretty good hitter and it may only be a difference of a few hits here and a few hits there"

I mean, I'm sorry but I can't help but disagree with this post tremendously. I think it matters GREATLY how strong the defense is and the reality is that it's not about booting balls for Unearned Runs, but about balls that are got to that otherwise wouldn't. Besides, just because a guy boots a ball doesn't mean the pitcher is not subject to more walks and hits in the inning that hurt the WHIP and hurt his chances for a win...


completely agree. it's like saying that it doesn't matter if you have torii hunter or bernie williams out in center: they're both going to get to the same. (yah, i know: bernie is DH'ing this year... but last year then)
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