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Hermida VS Francoeur

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Postby hybrid » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:52 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:I guess you didnt read about the overvalued part where I said I have seen 2 yahoo drafts where he went 5th and 6th rounds in a non keeper league and every chat room I get on thats all people talk about.I have also seen him play did he even get past AA?You are ntitled to your own opinions but I think it is a crapshoot between the two and think that Franc is a little more talented and raw at the same time.Hermida has not played a month of MLB yet where as to Franc has already posted some really good numbers in 250 ab in the majors.Keeper wise I think it is to close to call IMO.There minor league numbers were also very similar and Hermida wiffed quite a bit in the minors that was another thing people were saying how patient he was at the plate and how more polished he was than Franc and just dont see it. Also his career minor league avg I think is 284 nothing that special.He has good speed and will be very good but just like Franc alittle more


Nope I didn't read that, but still what does it have to do with this thread? So you saw some drafts where people overrated him, it happens every year to some guys.

I'm not getting your point, what does getting past AA mean at all? Also why do you automatically downgrade Hermida just cause the Braves promoted Francouer, it doesn't make much sense. Francouer only had a good 150 AB's in the majors, which is quite a small sample size, yet you seem to be basing that he is better just due to that. Why not compare their AA numbers last year were they both played in the same exact league and Hermida had obviously better numbers? On the strike outs the thing your not taking into account is how much Hermida walks, he had a lot more PA's because of that (over 140 to be exact). Francouer K'd every 4.75 PA's while Hermida K'd every 5.7 PA's, add in the walks and you have a more patient hitter by far.
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Postby rotterdam_82 » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:05 pm

I'm sorry, but since when did OBP matter for 5x5? Patient or not, Francoeur is an incredible competitor. He'll adjust and he'll have a great year. You can take that to the bank.

This year? Hermida. Just.

Keeper? Francoeur. By a mile.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:06 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:There minor league numbers were also very similar and Hermida wiffed quite a bit in the minors that was another thing people were saying how patient he was at the plate and how more polished he was than Franc and just dont see it. Also his career minor league avg I think is 284 nothing that special.He has good speed and will be very good but just like Franc alittle more


Hermida has more plate discipline this is evident because he walks more and has a higher equivalent average, which adjusts for league offensive level, home park, and team pitching.

Franc's career minor league average is .282, however if you adjust it properly it's more like .260.

Hermida's career minors average is .284. If you properly adjust it, it's more like .275. However he has shown consistent improvement each year so one might be more inclined to give more weight to his 2005 EqA of .306. This consistent improvement is more typical of a player with plate discipline. I can see why some are so confident Hermida is going to be a good player and a better bet than Franc.

Franc's standard and EqA have bounced around a bit more and do not show consistent improvement. This type of behavior is more typical of a player with less plate discipline. He's a higher risk with a potential reward that isn't much higher than Hermida's.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:09 pm

rotterdam_82 wrote:I'm sorry, but since when did OBP matter for 5x5? Patient or not, Francoeur is an incredible competitor. He'll adjust and he'll have a great year. You can take that to the bank.

This year? Hermida. Just.

Keeper? Francoeur. By a mile.


If Hermida is plays in a hitters park he likely will outperform Franc in 5x5 over the long run. No way either player is the better Keeper by a mile.

High OBP is one indicator that a player won't let you down in the runs department, he's more likely to have opportunities to steal as well.
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:16 pm

Hermida and Francoeur both played their minor league ball last season in the Southern League. Hermida's numbers dwarfed Francoeur's and they were both 21 at the time. Hermida has more speed, better patience, and doesn't lack power. Hermida is the easy choice for me here.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:19 pm

hybrid wrote: Why not compare their AA numbers last year were they both played in the same exact league and Hermida had obviously better numbers?



Hermida .293/18 HR/23/.975 in 506 PA
Franc: .275/13 HR/13/.809 in 367 PA

Franc gets caught stealing to often for me to predict he'll steal much at all in the majors, Hermida's steal rate is very nice. I'm drifting further and further to the Hermida side.
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:47 pm

rotterdam_82 wrote:I'm sorry, but since when did OBP matter for 5x5? Patient or not, Francoeur is an incredible competitor. He'll adjust and he'll have a great year. You can take that to the bank.

This year? Hermida. Just.

Keeper? Francoeur. By a mile.


Wow, by a mile? That's pretty bold, for a guy that's never walked more then 30 times in a season, with a .330 career minor league oba, and a 4/1 k/bb ratio. Compare to Hermidas .399 career minor league oba, and a 1/1 k/bb ratio.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:17 pm

rotterdam_82 wrote:I'm sorry, but since when did OBP matter for 5x5? Patient or not, Francoeur is an incredible competitor. He'll adjust and he'll have a great year. You can take that to the bank.

This year? Hermida. Just.

Keeper? Francoeur. By a mile.


Hermida by a mile short term or long term at this point. Whether you want to believe it or not, OBP does matter. His minor league numbers are far superior than Francoeur's.

Francoeur's current value is probably entirely driven by his 1 1/2 hot months in MLB:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/ind ... statType=1
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Postby TurdFerguson » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:34 pm

hybrid wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:I guess you didnt read about the overvalued part where I said I have seen 2 yahoo drafts where he went 5th and 6th rounds in a non keeper league and every chat room I get on thats all people talk about.I have also seen him play did he even get past AA?You are ntitled to your own opinions but I think it is a crapshoot between the two and think that Franc is a little more talented and raw at the same time.Hermida has not played a month of MLB yet where as to Franc has already posted some really good numbers in 250 ab in the majors.Keeper wise I think it is to close to call IMO.There minor league numbers were also very similar and Hermida wiffed quite a bit in the minors that was another thing people were saying how patient he was at the plate and how more polished he was than Franc and just dont see it. Also his career minor league avg I think is 284 nothing that special.He has good speed and will be very good but just like Franc alittle more


Nope I didn't read that, but still what does it have to do with this thread? So you saw some drafts where people overrated him, it happens every year to some guys.

I'm not getting your point, what does getting past AA mean at all? Also why do you automatically downgrade Hermida just cause the Braves promoted Francouer, it doesn't make much sense. Francouer only had a good 150 AB's in the majors, which is quite a small sample size, yet you seem to be basing that he is better just due to that. Why not compare their AA numbers last year were they both played in the same exact league and Hermida had obviously better numbers? On the strike outs the thing your not taking into account is how much Hermida walks, he had a lot more PA's because of that (over 140 to be exact). Francouer K'd every 4.75 PA's while Hermida K'd every 5.7 PA's, add in the walks and you have a more patient hitter by far.
I have not downgraded Hermida please do not put words in my mouth and where did I say anything about Franc being promoted and Hermida not have anything to do with this post go back and read the post .I said several times that I like Hermida and think its close I just like Franc better.Franc had 250 ab in the majors 300avg 14hr 45rbis anyway you slice and dice it.Hermida still struk out alot anyway you look at it and if you think his numbers were way better in the minors than that is just ludicrous.Hermida had 55 more at bats and put up slightly better numbers you are greatly exagerating.If you think Hermida is a slam dunk over Franc than great but there really isnt any proof to back it up because there minor league stats are very similar.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:38 pm

^

Is there really any point trying to discuss things with this guy?
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