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Hermida VS Francoeur

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Postby TurdFerguson » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:17 pm

hybrid wrote:I'd rather have Hermida on my keeper team. He is a much safer prospect cause he is already a complete package, he understands the game. Not to mention he still has upside and potential, so he is a rare commodity. Francoeur is much more of a raw prospect compared to Hermida. He has the potential to be more of a power threat in the future, but that's about the only area I can see him over taking Hermida in.
How is Hermida a complete package he has not even played a full month of MLB.People are really overvaluing him this year not saying he isnt talented because he is.Francouer could be just as talented he has already proved he can play and didnt even play a full season.I think everyone is just jumping on the Hermida bandwagon without even seeing him play even a full season but he will be good in the future but its alot closer than some of these post are making it out to be I wouldnt be one bit surprised if Francouer has a better career considering how the Braves produce talent
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Postby HOOTIE » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:31 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:
hybrid wrote:I'd rather have Hermida on my keeper team. He is a much safer prospect cause he is already a complete package, he understands the game. Not to mention he still has upside and potential, so he is a rare commodity. Francoeur is much more of a raw prospect compared to Hermida. He has the potential to be more of a power threat in the future, but that's about the only area I can see him over taking Hermida in.
How is Hermida a complete package he has not even played a full month of MLB.People are really overvaluing him this year not saying he isnt talented because he is.Francouer could be just as talented he has already proved he can play and didnt even play a full season.I think everyone is just jumping on the Hermida bandwagon without even seeing him play even a full season but he will be good in the future but its alot closer than some of these post are making it out to be I wouldnt be one bit surprised if Francouer has a better career considering how the Braves produce talent


Unless Francouer develops some plate displine, i don't see him as the hitter Hermida is. Jeff never saw a pitch he didn't try to hit 500 feet. Francouer struggled as pitchers adjusted. In his last 102 abs, he hit .235.
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Postby TurdFerguson » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:49 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
hybrid wrote:I'd rather have Hermida on my keeper team. He is a much safer prospect cause he is already a complete package, he understands the game. Not to mention he still has upside and potential, so he is a rare commodity. Francoeur is much more of a raw prospect compared to Hermida. He has the potential to be more of a power threat in the future, but that's about the only area I can see him over taking Hermida in.
How is Hermida a complete package he has not even played a full month of MLB.People are really overvaluing him this year not saying he isnt talented because he is.Francouer could be just as talented he has already proved he can play and didnt even play a full season.I think everyone is just jumping on the Hermida bandwagon without even seeing him play even a full season but he will be good in the future but its alot closer than some of these post are making it out to be I wouldnt be one bit surprised if Francouer has a better career considering how the Braves produce talent


Unless Francouer develops some plate displine, i don't see him as the hitter Hermida is. Jeff never saw a pitch he didn't try to hit 500 feet. Francouer struggled as pitchers adjusted. In his last 102 abs, he hit .235.
I dont think it was pitchers adjusting he is a free swinger and probably was wearing down physicaly and mentaly from it being his first major league season.As for plate awareness that will come with more expierence.I dont think one is more talented than the other IMO
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Postby nuggets » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:53 pm

TurdFerguson wrote: How is Hermida a complete package he has not even played a full month of MLB. People are really overvaluing him this year not saying he isnt talented because he is. Francouer could be just as talented he has already proved he can play and didnt even play a full season.I think everyone is just jumping on the Hermida bandwagon without even seeing him play even a full season but he will be good in the future but its alot closer than some of these post are making it out to be I wouldnt be one bit surprised if Francouer has a better career considering how the Braves produce talent


Hermida did have a great year (506 PA) in the minors before being called up, there is reason to believe in him. He equivalents were .406 OBP, .457 SLG and .306 EqA.

Franc did some impressive things in the minors too, as Baseball Prospectus tell us :
He (Francoeur) lacks plate discipline, but he slugged .508 as a 20-year-old at high-A Myrtle Beach, which is perhaps the toughest hitting environment in the minors.


Hermida is probably the the safer keeper pick although, there isn't reason to believe Francoeur is very unlikey to produce more than him, there is just more risk involved.

I don't understand the underlined part.

I dont think it was pitchers adjusting he is a free swinger and probably was wearing down physicaly and mentaly from it being his first major league season. As for plate awareness that will come with more expierence.I dont think one is more talented than the other IMO

It's safe to assume you don't look at and/or value minor league stats, correct? They are decent predictors of future success you know.

Denying that pitchers don't adjust to a hitter, especially one who swings so much as Franc., isn't going to help you succeed in predicting talent. I believe he wore down a bit as well, he had more PA than ever before and was playing in hot and humid Atl. Still, there is no denying a batter who walks so infrequently is likely to go through big slumps and hot streaks.
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Postby whoseyourdaddy12 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:08 pm

i personally like hermida a lot and would rather have him then francoeur, and its not close. IMO.
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Postby George_Foreman » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:27 pm

Francoeur's probably got the higher ceiling hitting-wise, but I'll take Hermida in fantasy for the steals.

The way I see it, Francour projects to be a .280 25 HR hitter unless he can get some plate discipline. If he can be more selective at the plate, and cut down on his Ks, he could turn in to a very special player.

Hermida is safer, but I don't think he's got the same upside as Franoeur.
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Postby TurdFerguson » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:45 pm

nuggets wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote: How is Hermida a complete package he has not even played a full month of MLB. People are really overvaluing him this year not saying he isnt talented because he is. Francouer could be just as talented he has already proved he can play and didnt even play a full season.I think everyone is just jumping on the Hermida bandwagon without even seeing him play even a full season but he will be good in the future but its alot closer than some of these post are making it out to be I wouldnt be one bit surprised if Francouer has a better career considering how the Braves produce talent


Hermida did have a great year (506 PA) in the minors before being called up, there is reason to believe in him. He equivalents were .406 OBP, .457 SLG and .306 EqA.

Franc did some impressive things in the minors too, as Baseball Prospectus tell us :
He (Francoeur) lacks plate discipline, but he slugged .508 as a 20-year-old at high-A Myrtle Beach, which is perhaps the toughest hitting environment in the minors.


Hermida is probably the the safer keeper pick although, there isn't reason to believe Francoeur is very unlikey to produce more than him, there is just more risk involved.

I don't understand the underlined part.

I dont think it was pitchers adjusting he is a free swinger and probably was wearing down physicaly and mentaly from it being his first major league season. As for plate awareness that will come with more expierence.I dont think one is more talented than the other IMO

It's safe to assume you don't look at and/or value minor league stats, correct? They are decent predictors of future success you know.

Denying that pitchers don't adjust to a hitter, especially one who swings so much as Franc., isn't going to help you succeed in predicting talent. I believe he wore down a bit as well, he had more PA than ever before and was playing in hot and humid Atl. Still, there is no denying a batter who walks so infrequently is likely to go through big slumps and hot streaks.
I didnt say that pitchers didnt just to hitters so dont put words into my mouth.I said I didnt think that was the reason for Francouer tailing off a bit towards the end of the year.As for minor leagues stats you can only read into them so much it is not the MAJORS!!!Alot has to do with coaching and the situation they are put in.Like I said just because he didnt walk that much last year does not mean he never will you cant predict that and I am sure Cox is going to work on it in the Spring.If he starts taking walks and being patient than the sky is the limit.Hermida hasnt even played a month of MLB so how do you know what he is going to do are you just going to take his minor league stats and just anoint him the next coming of Pujols.Minors are far mor different than the bigs.Hermida is going to be good there is alot of upside with a great frame 6"4 200 but my whole point is is that I think it is a crapshoot between the two.As for the underlined part I have seen two yahoo drafts where he was taken in the 5th and 6th rounds.
Last edited by TurdFerguson on Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nuggets » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:52 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:I didnt say that pitchers didnt just to hitters so dont put words into my mouth.I said I didnt think that was the reason for Francouer tailing off a bit towards the end of the year.

Do you believe it had some effect on his drop off? If so its your fault for not indicating so, isn't it?
TurdFerguson wrote:As for minor leagues stats you can only read into them so much it is not the MAJORS!!!Alot has to do with coaching and the situation they are put in.Like I said just because he didnt walk that much last year does not mean he never will you cant predict that and I am sure Cox is going to work on it in the Spring.If he starts taking walks and being patient than the sky is the limit.Hermida hasnt even played a month of MLB so how do you know what he is going to do are you just going to take his minor league stats and just anoint him the next coming of Pujols.Minors are far mor different than the bigs


Well if you read my post I didn't anoint anyone the next Pujols did I? No a merely pointed out the proven correltation between adjusted Minors nubmers and Majors numbers. The true question to the degree of this correlation with each player. ;-)

What evidence do you have that Franc. is some sort of freak that will defy what the empirical data says?

You should read GTWMA posts on minors numbers. I'll look for them.
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Postby Half Massed » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:56 pm

From what I've seen, Hermida projects as 25/15/.300 kind of guy over his career, while Franceour projects for better power, less speed and similar average. I'm not completely sure how accurate that is, anyone care to back me up or correct me?

As for this next season, they're both risks, but Hermida seems safer. Maybe Franceour calms down, adjusts, and doesn't fall into the sophomore slump everybody's predicting, but he could just as easily go the other way. Hermida has the patience that points to a more stable season. It depends on how he adjusts his strike zone.
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Postby TurdFerguson » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:58 pm

nuggets wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:I didnt say that pitchers didnt just to hitters so dont put words into my mouth.I said I didnt think that was the reason for Francouer tailing off a bit towards the end of the year.

Do you believe it had some effect on his drop off? If so its your fault for not indicating so, isn't it?
TurdFerguson wrote:As for minor leagues stats you can only read into them so much it is not the MAJORS!!!Alot has to do with coaching and the situation they are put in.Like I said just because he didnt walk that much last year does not mean he never will you cant predict that and I am sure Cox is going to work on it in the Spring.If he starts taking walks and being patient than the sky is the limit.Hermida hasnt even played a month of MLB so how do you know what he is going to do are you just going to take his minor league stats and just anoint him the next coming of Pujols.Minors are far mor different than the bigs


Well if you read my post I didn't anoint anyone the next Pujols did I? No a merely pointed out the proven correltation between adjusted Minors nubmers and Majors numbers. The true question to the degree of this correlation with each player. ;-)

What evidence do you have that Franc. is some sort of freak that will defy what the empirical data says?

You should read GTWMA posts on minors numbers. I'll look for them.
You didnt read my post that I answerd to the guy said he hit like 200 in his last 100 ab and I said thatI thought it was because he was wearing down so you really didnt read my post.Did you not see what he did in less than a full year with the Braves and Hermida hasnt played A MONTH OF MLB.I dont care what the stats say some hold true and alot dont I have seen many great prospects flop
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