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Drafting no starting pitching??

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Postby Zito is God » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:01 pm

Waiting till completion of offensive draft until drafting SPs: Good Idea.

Not drafting SPs: Horrid idea.

You automatically lose Ks and Wins and possibly WHIP (depedning on your closers).

I would suggest that if you want to be radicall, draft ALL of your team and THEN go for starting pitching. Draft ALL your closers and ALL your starting offense, and then you can start drafting SPs in the 10th or so, this would be decent, not your idea.
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Postby moose32 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:09 pm

not a good idea. every now again a closer can completely loose it and give up 3er with 0ip and ruin your week
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Postby RynMan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:45 pm

Nothing I can add that hasn't already been said. I balanced team can withstand more bumps along the road like injuries, and terrible years from usually productive players. I agree, don't invest heavily in starting pitchers because plenty will emerge during the year - but don't neglect it.
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punting SP

Postby Eightan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:26 pm

Ender wrote:It works better in H2H than roto obviously. We had a couple people go heavier RP with just a couple starters last year but it ultilmately didn't work that well for them. You just lose too many points in the K's and W's in the long run and it just takes one bad outing by a RP to really ruin your ERA/WHIP.


yeah i agree with that... i think you can draft 4 straight good power/speeed hitters, get a top tier reliever in round 5, then a mid round SP, but still a guy good enough to help you compete, then another reliever and then go on picking hitters
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Postby rainman23 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:49 pm

I'd really like to see a well-thought-out analysis sometime about why doing goofy things with your pitching -- going just with relievers, streaming starters, scanning the waiver wire each week for those two-start pitchers -- is going to be effective in H2H, but not in Roto. You see advice like this all the time -- "It's a H2H league, you're an idiot if you try to balance your squad." "It's H2H, punt some categories." "That's why I don't play H2H -- I want to win because I have the strongest team overall."

Could somebody explain that to me? Why a strategy that can work in the small weekly samples of H2H won't work season-long in Roto? Or, more accurately, why a strategy that works when you total up 20-22 of those small H2H samples won't work in Roto just as well?

I'm not saying to do any of this crap in Roto. I think that no matter what format you're using, you're missing out on a lot of the fun of fantasy ball if you're not trying to build the best pitching staff you can. And that no matter what format you're using, you should try to devise rules that reward people who build a solid staff. But I see people do that "It works better in H2H" argument all the time. Why?
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Postby Andy1234 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:31 pm

Someone tried this in my league last year and finish dead last
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Postby Eightan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:36 pm

rainman23 wrote:I'd really like to see a well-thought-out analysis sometime about why doing goofy things with your pitching -- going just with relievers, streaming starters, scanning the waiver wire each week for those two-start pitchers -- is going to be effective in H2H, but not in Roto. You see advice like this all the time -- "It's a H2H league, you're an idiot if you try to balance your squad." "It's H2H, punt some categories." "That's why I don't play H2H -- I want to win because I have the strongest team overall."

Could somebody explain that to me? Why a strategy that can work in the small weekly samples of H2H won't work season-long in Roto? Or, more accurately, why a strategy that works when you total up 20-22 of those small H2H samples won't work in Roto just as well?

I'm not saying to do any of this crap in Roto. I think that no matter what format you're using, you're missing out on a lot of the fun of fantasy ball if you're not trying to build the best pitching staff you can. And that no matter what format you're using, you should try to devise rules that reward people who build a solid staff. But I see people do that "It works better in H2H" argument all the time. Why?


firstly, i don't compete in a h2h league, my league is roto. That being said, the reason why i think an all hitters strategy might work in h2h is as follows:
1. both teams hitters are starting everyday of the week. since you've drafted all hitters in the first few rounds, it can be assumed that you have the best hitters out of the two teams. for instance, the team you're facing may have drafted an ace SP in the 2nd or 3rd round, whereas you took a hitter. so, let's assume you'll win all the hitting cats. that week (if you don't, your dunsky).
2. so then you've got your pitchers... you've probably got some back end starters... maybe bonderman, contrares, d. davis, and if you're lucky you got burnett or buehrle at the head of your staff. The other team's staff probably has an oswalt or a pedro, and then a beckett/colon kind of deal, followed by a sabathia/f. garcia type of pitcher. so, his staff is better than yours, but not necessarily by a whole lot. plus, even the aces like oswalt and pedro have bad outings.

thus, the way it may end up working out, is that your hitting will pummel his hitting and your weak pitching staff may just get you enough points to beat one team that week. as opposed to in roto, where you have to consistently be ahead of 11 teams every day. it's very hard to do that with a weak pitching staff. it's easier to beat one team at a time, not 11.
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starting pitching

Postby Eightan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:13 pm

by the way, despite everything i just said above, i do not personally use this strategy, and i don't recommend it. it's very hard to draft correctly because you're constantly tempted to take a pitcher earlier than you should, because you fear that by the time you've got all the hitters you want there won't be any pitching left. so, you end up getting a good pitcher, but who's not a top starter, and you miss out on a hitter that you needed to ensure you win the hitting cats. every week, and the pitching you have isn't good enough to win the pitching cats. every week.
plus you also get distracted by the need to fill week positions, like short, 2b, and catcher, with the best hitters at those positions, but those players are not necessarily the best hitters available. for instance, in the fourth round you might be tempted to take a guy like marcus giles or jeter. those players are pretty good at their positions but they are certainly not the best hitters available in the fourth round.
so, since it's so hard to use this strategy correctly, it's better not to, because you'll probably screw it up and come in last place, like what some other poster said.
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Postby OneLoveBoomer » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:43 pm

Good idea in general, but don't let them go altogether. Here's my strategy with pitching this year, as I'm also building primarily offense.

Rule #1: You gotta get R. Dempster. He's the only solid SP/RP (if that's an issue in your league settings) so you can plug an extra RP in.

Rule #2: Compete with SPs, but play the match-up game. Don't worry about ace SPs ... wait for a favorable matchup and pick up a decent SP off the waiver wire.

Make sure you win 3/5 or 4/6 of the offensive cats every week. I know that sounds obvious, but it's important: think ahead to make it virtually impossible for anyone to beat you in 3 batting cats. If that means drafting all high AVG speed guys, then go for it--you'll grab AVG SB and R every week.
Last edited by OneLoveBoomer on Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:32 am

rainman23 wrote:I'd really like to see a well-thought-out analysis sometime about why doing goofy things with your pitching -- going just with relievers, streaming starters, scanning the waiver wire each week for those two-start pitchers -- is going to be effective in H2H, but not in Roto. You see advice like this all the time -- "It's a H2H league, you're an idiot if you try to balance your squad." "It's H2H, punt some categories." "That's why I don't play H2H -- I want to win because I have the strongest team overall."

Could somebody explain that to me? Why a strategy that can work in the small weekly samples of H2H won't work season-long in Roto? Or, more accurately, why a strategy that works when you total up 20-22 of those small H2H samples won't work in Roto just as well?

I'm not saying to do any of this crap in Roto. I think that no matter what format you're using, you're missing out on a lot of the fun of fantasy ball if you're not trying to build the best pitching staff you can. And that no matter what format you're using, you should try to devise rules that reward people who build a solid staff. But I see people do that "It works better in H2H" argument all the time. Why?


It won't work in Roto because Roto has innings limitations. Hence, not only will you do poorly in ERA and WHIP, but you will also do poorly in Wins and K's.

Doing poorly in 4 categories in roto = lose.
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