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Using Quality Starts over Wins

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Postby Ender » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:05 pm

If you don't want a players team to matter in fantasy than you can't use R, HR, RBI either and you better get rid of K's since the NL has an 'unfair advantage', not to mention ERA and WHIP.

You simply cannot seperate a player from his team in fantasy and there is no reason to try to. Its part of the game.
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Postby Matthias » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:31 pm

Ender wrote:If you don't want a players team to matter in fantasy than you can't use R, HR, RBI either and you better get rid of K's since the NL has an 'unfair advantage', not to mention ERA and WHIP.

You simply cannot seperate a player from his team in fantasy and there is no reason to try to. Its part of the game.


this is too fatalistic/defeatist. just because something is difficult doesn't mean you should throw up your hands and say to heck with it.

you're never going to completely separate a player from his team, but you can try to select statistics that get closer.
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Postby klvrdude » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:26 pm

Here's a stupid question, what constitutes a "Quality Start"???

Is ESPN's QS different then Joe's Fantasy Guide?

I had put a little thought into talking to my league about switching, but then I thought it might cause fights b/c I don't think there is a universal measuring stick to determine quality starts.

Also, Hollcat has a very relavent point that it would put extra weight on starters.

In the end, I believe QS (along with k/9 and k:bb) are great for determining whom to draft, but probably shouldn't be used as stats to play with.
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Postby Nerfherders » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:00 pm

Wow interesting leader board there. Notice that the top 13 starters and 17 of the top 20 are from the National League. I would have never expected that big of difference.
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Postby Matthias » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:31 pm

klvrdude wrote:Here's a stupid question, what constitutes a "Quality Start"???

Is ESPN's QS different then Joe's Fantasy Guide?


Quality Start = Any start in which a pitcher works six or more innings while allowing three or fewer earned runs.

That's a standard definition. Same everywhere.

And re: NL dominance, 8 of the top 10 in last year's ERA were original leaguers. NL pitchers will dominate AL pitchers in virtually every statistic anyways. You figure it into your drafting strategy.
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Postby eviljoshing » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:02 pm

A QS is even MORE influenced by the defense behind a pitcher and the park he plays in then a win. A win has both teams compared scoring in the same park with the same park adjusted stats. Also, rain and other conditions that make defenses difficult account for both teams. A QS takes no conditions into consideration. It ignores the disadvantage of pitching in Fenway compared to Cleveland (about 10%) or Colorado to anywhere. There is no single stat that measure the quality of a start. The closest is probably strikeouts to walks ignoring hits entirely. Once the ball is in play in any way, the best you can do is pick your poison for which categories you want to affect the stat you are using. QS has just as many factors in it (defense and parks most notably) as a W (run support, so offenses of both teams and defeneses of both teams).
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Postby Matthias » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:20 pm

eviljoshing wrote:A QS is even MORE influenced by the defense behind a pitcher and the park he plays in then a win. A win has both teams compared scoring in the same park with the same park adjusted stats. Also, rain and other conditions that make defenses difficult account for both teams. A QS takes no conditions into consideration. It ignores the disadvantage of pitching in Fenway compared to Cleveland (about 10%) or Colorado to anywhere. There is no single stat that measure the quality of a start. The closest is probably strikeouts to walks ignoring hits entirely. Once the ball is in play in any way, the best you can do is pick your poison for which categories you want to affect the stat you are using. QS has just as many factors in it (defense and parks most notably) as a W (run support, so offenses of both teams and defeneses of both teams).


sure, but as you allude to at the end, it's not the defensive aspect of a W that people take issue with: it's the offensive. your pitcher can go 8 innings and allow one run and not get the win. or he can leave, having pitched a shuout for 8 innings and have the closer blow it for him.

quantitatively, a qs is more indicative of good pitching than a win. whether or not it's sufficiently already measured by other stats is a separate issue. but if you were only going to choose one stat to measure a pitcher's individual quality over the season, qs is clearly superior.
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Postby klvrdude » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:40 pm

Matthias wrote:Quality Start = Any start in which a pitcher works six or more innings while allowing three or fewer earned runs.


Huh. I never would of guessed that pitcher could have a 4.50 game ERA and a quality start. You live, you learn :*)
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