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Guys that you think the consensus might be wrong...

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Guys that you think the consensus might be wrong...

Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:02 pm

OK, I am starting with Cliff Lee.

Is it me or is everyone piling on the Cliff Lee bandwagon? I do not know what to make of this guy. He is inconsistent start to start. month to month. His numbers are OK but not great.

I was wondering if someone ever pulled his numbers vs top hitting teams (Yanks, Boston, Texas, WSox, etc) for the 05 season. I haven't, but my instincts and from what I remeber of him last year is that he was doing a lot of damage against bad offensive teams (KC, Min) and was generally getting shelled vs good ones. Would love to see some stats on that. Is he a product of a bad division and the unbalanced schedule? If so, than the hype could be misplaced.
Last edited by TheYanks04 on Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby nikku88 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:05 pm

Most pitchers probably would look a little weaker against the top hitting teams. Although he's more of a #2 rotation guy IMO instead of an Ace.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:08 pm

I have not calc'ed the numbers, but I remember him getting belted around against good teams...not some 4.3 ERA vs 3.6 type stuff. I am too lazy to go calc it though. I also seem to remember him beating up on KC quite a bit.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:12 pm

<pre>DATE OPP RESULT IP H R ER HR BB SO GB FB PIT BF GSc DEC REL ERA*

Apr. 7 @CWS W 11-5 3.1 8 5 5 1 1 4 5 5 69 19 27 - - 13.50
Apr. 13 CWS L 5-4 6.2 6 4 4 0 0 2 12 8 90 25 48 - - 8.10
Apr. 18 @KC W 5-1 7.0 2 0 0 0 2 5 7 10 104 25 76 W(1-0) - 4.77
Apr. 23 @SEA W 5-2 7.0 4 0 0 0 1 5 5 9 107 25 73 W(2-0) - 3.38
Apr. 30 KC L 9-1 5.0 8 6 5 2 3 3 8 7 90 26 29 L(2-1) - 4.35

Monthly Totals 29.0 28 15 14 3 7 19 37 39 460 120 -- 2-1 0 sv 4.34

May. 6 @TEX W 8-6 5.1 8 3 3 2 0 2 8 11 97 24 42 W(3-1) - 4.46
May. 11 @LAA W 9-3 6.0 5 3 2 1 0 4 5 11 97 24 56 W(4-1) - 4.24
May. 16 LAA L 3-1 7.2 7 3 2 0 2 2 10 10 116 31 55 L(4-2) - 3.94
May. 22 @CIN W 9-2 5.2 4 1 1 0 3 7 4 7 99 24 61 W(5-2) - 3.69
May. 27 OAK W 4-1 6.0 2 0 0 0 3 5 4 9 85 22 70 W(6-2) - 3.32

Monthly Totals 30.2 26 10 8 3 8 20 31 48 494 125 -- 4-1 0 sv 2.35

Jun. 1 @MIN L 6-2 5.0 9 4 4 1 2 6 5 9 94 26 37 L(6-3) - 3.62
Jun. 7 @SD W 2-0 7.0 5 0 0 0 2 9 5 7 111 28 74 - - 3.27
Jun. 12 @SF W 5-3 7.0 5 3 1 1 1 4 8 13 90 29 62 W(7-3) - 3.09
Jun. 17 ARI W 13-6 5.0 8 4 4 1 3 4 8 5 109 26 36 W(8-3) - 3.34
Jun. 22 BOS L 5-4 7.0 6 2 2 2 3 6 6 13 103 29 60 - - 3.28
Jun. 28 @BOS W 12-8 5.1 7 5 5 0 3 4 3 12 101 26 35 - - 3.56

Monthly Totals 36.1 40 18 16 5 14 33 35 59 608 164 -- 2-1 0 sv 3.96

Jul. 3 @BAL W 9-4 6.2 9 4 4 2 1 1 9 12 99 28 40 W(9-3) - 3.68
Jul. 8 @NYY L 5-4 6.0 6 5 5 0 3 6 5 9 103 26 43 L(9-4) - 3.89
Jul. 18 KC W 6-2 5.0 4 2 2 1 2 7 7 2 69 20 56 W(10-4) - 3.88
Jul. 23 SEA W 4-3 7.1 8 3 3 0 1 5 13 5 103 29 54 W(11-4) - 3.87
Jul. 28 @SEA W 6-5 6.2 9 4 4 1 1 5 5 15 103 29 44 - - 3.95

Monthly Totals 31.2 36 18 18 4 8 24 39 43 477 132 -- 3-1 0 sv 5.12

Aug. 3 NYY W 7-4 6.2 8 4 4 1 2 5 7 9 101 29 45 W(12-4) - 4.02
Aug. 9 @KC W 13-7 5.0 8 6 6 1 3 3 6 9 86 25 27 - - 4.26
Aug. 14 TB L 1-0 8.0 6 0 0 0 1 3 9 13 108 31 72 - - 4.03
Aug. 20 BAL W 6-1 7.0 4 1 1 0 1 6 4 7 98 25 70 W(13-4) - 3.91
Aug. 25 @TB W 12-4 6.0 4 4 3 1 0 5 4 9 82 23 55 W(14-4) - 3.93
Aug. 31 DET L 4-3 6.0 5 2 2 0 2 5 10 6 107 25 57 - - 3.90

Monthly Totals 38.2 35 17 16 3 9 27 40 53 582 158 -- 3-0 0 sv 3.72

Sep. 6 @DET W 6-1 8.0 4 0 0 0 2 4 8 13 111 31 76 W(15-4) - 3.72
Sep. 11 MIN W 12-4 6.0 4 2 2 1 1 2 8 7 91 22 57 W(16-4) - 3.69
Sep. 17 KC W 5-4 7.0 5 4 4 2 0 7 8 6 90 26 58 W(17-4) - 3.75
Sep. 22 @KC W 11-6 6.2 10 6 6 1 2 4 8 9 95 31 32 W(18-4) - 3.90
Sep. 28 TB L 1-0 8.0 6 1 1 0 1 3 9 10 89 29 68 L(18-5) - 3.79

Monthly Totals 35.2 29 13 13 4 6 20 41 45 476 139 -- 4-1 0 sv 3.28


Totals 202.0 194 91 85 22 52 143 223 287 3097 838 53 18-5 0-0-0 3.79
</pre>
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Postby wkelly91 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:30 pm

Bonds
Johjima
Hudson
Lugo
D.Johnson
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:31 pm

So the WSox beat him up (9 Ers in 10 IPs):
Apr. 7 @CWS W 11-5 3.1 8 5 5 1 1 4 5 5 69 19 27 - - 13.50
Apr. 13 CWS L 5-4 6.2 6 4 4 0 0 2 12 8 90 25 48 - - 8.10


Yanks too (9 ERs in 12.2 IPs):
Jul. 8 @NYY L 5-4 6.0 6 5 5 0 3 6 5 9 103 26 43 L(9-4) - 3.89
Aug. 3 NYY W 7-4 6.2 8 4 4 1 2 5 7 9 101 29 45 W(12-4) - 4.02


Boston pretty much too (7 ERs in 12 IPs):
Jun. 22 BOS L 5-4 7.0 6 2 2 2 3 6 6 13 103 29 60 - - 3.28
Jun. 28 @BOS W 12-8 5.1 7 5 5 0 3 4 3 12 101 26 35 - - 3.56

Texas did alright with 3 runs in 5.1 IPs:
May. 6 @TEX W 8-6 5.1 8 3 3 2 0 2 8 11 97 24 42 W(3-1) - 4.46


KC lost 4 of 5, getting to him twice(17 ERs in 29 Ips).
Apr. 18 @KC W 5-1 7.0 2 0 0 0 2 5 7 10 104 25 76 W(1-0) - 4.77
Apr. 30 KC L 9-1 5.0 8 6 5 2 3 3 8 7 90 26 29 L(2-1) - 4.35
Jul. 18 KC W 6-2 5.0 4 2 2 1 2 7 7 2 69 20 56 W(10-4) - 3.88
Aug. 9 @KC W 13-7 5.0 8 6 6 1 3 3 6 9 86 25 27 - - 4.26
Sep. 17 KC W 5-4 7.0 5 4 4 2 0 7 8 6 90 26 58 W(17-4) - 3.75

Seattle went 0-3 getting 7 Ers in 21 IPs (not good):
Apr. 23 @SEA W 5-2 7.0 4 0 0 0 1 5 5 9 107 25 73 W(2-0) - 3.38
Jul. 23 SEA W 4-3 7.1 8 3 3 0 1 5 13 5 103 29 54 W(11-4) - 3.87
Jul. 28 @SEA W 6-5 6.2 9 4 4 1 1 5 5 15 103 29 44 - - 3.95


Looks like he did most of his damage/good games vs some bad offenses...and got torched by good clubs.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:44 pm

wkelly91 wrote:Bonds
Johjima
Hudson
Lugo
D.Johnson


There is a consensus on Bonds?
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Postby wkelly91 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:24 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:
wkelly91 wrote:Bonds
Johjima
Hudson
Lugo
D.Johnson


There is a consensus on Bonds?


Mock drafts: 20, 32, 32, 48, 48, 62

Way too early IMO. Injured last year, rumors of steroids, 40+, and add to that an attitude :-[
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:42 pm

You are preaching to the choir their on Bonds. I have seen him go as late as round 8 though. I would want no part of him though.
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Postby Iconoclastic » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:36 am

Jason Bay

Miguel Cabrera
[b]Bold Predictions:[/b]

Grady Sizemore will have more value than Jason Bay regardless of draft position

Aramis Ramirez in 155 G will hit over .300 40 HR 110 RBIs

Brian McCann will have more value than Jorge Posada regardless of draft position
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