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BEST LINEUP IN THE AL?

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Postby NZF » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:28 pm

El Gaupo wrote:Really., based on what? FYI JT Snow isn't starting.



I doubt that decision has been made in January and even if it is true then what upgrade are you talking about, Youkilis was part of the Red Sox roster last season as a bench player.

Mike Lowell and his .236 avg (2005) and career .272 an upgrade over the 2003 AL batting champion :-? That in itself makes your argument ludicrous.

Also it should be obvious to anyone with at least half a brain cell that no way is Coco Crisp an upgrade over Damon. 52 million over 4 years for his services should be evidence enough of that.

They have upgraded at 2B only and even that's for a 34 year old who must now adjust to the AL for the first time and could at anytime fall back to the mediocracy he displayed for 8 years in Milwaukee.

The Red Sox lineup is far worse than last season and it's evident that there's no way they can afford to see the back of Manny even if deep down they'd like to.

If the 2005 version of their pitching staff turns up in 2006 then they could very likely be battling the Rays for the wooden spoon in the AL East.
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Re: BEST LINEUP IN THE AL?

Postby thedude » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:53 pm

Belle4Hall88 wrote:
#2: Boston Red Sox:
Crisp, CF
Loretta, 2B
Ortiz, DH
Ramirez, RF
Varitek, C
Nixon, LF
Lowell, 3B
Snow, 1B
Gonzalez, SS



Its is Youkilis starting at first...


I agree with the ranking of the Red Sox second.

If you compare with last years lineup the (which was still Scored the Most runsin MLB) you aren't losing much.


You can't compare positon by position, but by spot in the order...

Damon vs. Crisp: Slight downgrade (crisp has more power and will probably hit for a higher average, but walks less)
Renteria vs. Loretta- Upgrade (renteria was atrocious last season)
Ortiz-same
Manny-same
Millar vs Lowell- Upgrade (Millar had no power last season, while Lowell looks to have a bounce back year)
Varitek-Same
Nixon-Same
Mueller vs Youkilis- Probably a push if youk preforms as well as he did in limited playing time
Cora/Gonzalez/Peodria Vs Bellhorn/Cora/Graffinino-downgrade if Corz/Gonzo has the job,but an upgrade if Pedoria can win it


So how much does the downgrade of Damon to Crisp, compare to the upgrades of Lowell and Loretta? I doubt the run total will drop much.
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Postby NZF » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:10 pm

Another important point.

It appears as though Nixon and his career BA vs lefties of .215 in 516 AB's will be an everyday player in 2006 :-o
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Postby Wozzyck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:13 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:I doubt that decision has been made in January and even if it is true then what upgrade are you talking about, Youkilis was part of the Red Sox roster last season as a bench player.


Yes, but we're discussing the output of Red Sox firstbasemen in 2006, not aggregate 1B talent on the team. Youkilis stands a good chance of outproducing Millar/Olerud in his likely new role as starting 1B; whether he was on the roster last year is immaterial.

New Zealand Fan wrote:Mike Lowell and his .236 avg (2005) and career .272 an upgrade over the 2003 AL batting champion :-? That in itself makes your argument ludicrous.


:-B I don't think Mike Lowell will outperform Mueller either, but I found this funny. So your big trump card is that Lowell's career batting average doesn't hold a candle to Mueller's batting average THREE YEARS ago?! Now that's ludicrous.

New Zealand Fan wrote:Also it should be obvious to anyone with at least half a brain cell that no way is Coco Crisp an upgrade over Damon. 52 million over 4 years for his services should be evidence enough of that.


Though I won't go so far as to say that Crisp is a clear upgrade over Damon, I certainly find it reasonable to believe that he's some flavor of upgrade over Damon. Maybe I've got just one and a half brain cells, or something. Please, indulge me as to why it's ridiculous to believe this (and you'll have to do better than "Steinbrenner sure did spend a lot of money on him.")
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Postby thedude » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:26 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:Another important point.

It appears as though Nixon and his career BA vs lefties of .215 in 516 AB's will be an everyday player in 2006 :-o






Actually Dustin Mohr will get most of the at bats versus lefties. His 3 average agianst lefties: .261 .345 .470
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Postby Wozzyck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:29 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:Another important point.

It appears as though Nixon and his career BA vs lefties of .215 in 516 AB's will be an everyday player in 2006 :-o


He'll probably be no more an everyday player than he's always been; I fail to see why this is important. I would presume that the Red Sox will acquire some outfielder to absorb 100-150 AB against lefties, just as they've done before (whether they'll settle on Mohr or not, I don't know). This is really grasping here.
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Postby El Gaupo » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:44 pm

Wozzyck wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:Another important point.

It appears as though Nixon and his career BA vs lefties of .215 in 516 AB's will be an everyday player in 2006 :-o


He'll probably be no more an everyday player than he's always been; I fail to see why this is important. I would presume that the Red Sox will acquire some outfielder to absorb 100-150 AB against lefties, just as they've done before (whether they'll settle on Mohr or not, I don't know). This is really grasping here.



Woz.

If people hate the sox that's OK they should just say the sox blow and that the reaon for their posts. :,-(
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Postby NZF » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:55 pm

Wozzyck wrote:I don't think Mike Lowell will outperform Mueller either, but I found this funny. So your big trump card is that Lowell's career batting average doesn't hold a candle to Mueller's batting average THREE YEARS ago?! Now that's ludicrous.


No trump card there, I played aces with every argument.

Mueller's career average is a full 20 points better than Lowell's, the fact Mueller has won a league batting title in the past 3 years just adds more weight to say how ludicrous it is to think Lowell is an upgrade.

Look at 1B anyway you want but to suggest Youkilis is an upgrade over Millar makes no sense. If he was he would have been an everyday player last season. He's an 8th round draft pick that's now 26 and I hate to break this to you but he ain't nothing special. I see him in a platoon with JT Snow at 1B and Snow will get the majority of the playing time with the Sox facing more righties than lefties. That's a downgrade in my book.

Good luck with those 150 AB's from Dustin Mohr and I can't disagree on your personal brain cell assessment.
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Postby NZF » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:07 pm

El Gaupo wrote:
Woz.

If people hate the sox that's OK they should just say the sox blow and that the reaon for their posts. :,-(


It always amuses me that as soon as someone makes a statement that goes against the norm and hurts the feelings of some homers, they get accused of being a hater.

I'm a Yankee hater one minute and a Red Sox hater the next ;-7

Simple fact is I'm a realist with no allegiances who can see the woods for the trees, wear no one eyed patches, blinds or blinkers and think outside of the square.

The Red Sox batting lineup is a great deal weaker this season than last season and the evidence will be there for all to see come September (even those with blinkers / blinds on), deal with it.
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Postby Wozzyck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:22 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:It always amuses me that as soon as someone makes a statement that goes against the norm and hurts the feelings of some homers, they get accused of being a hater.

Simple fact is I'm a realist with no allegiances who can see the woods for the trees, wear no one eyed patches, blinds or blinkers and think outside of the square.


Apparently realists with no allegiances can't be bothered to make cogent arguments, well-supported by statistical evidence. Hater? Probably not, and who cares. Delusional moron? :-?
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