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BEST LINEUP IN THE AL?

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Postby Morrison8312 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:38 pm

Wozzyck wrote:
Morrison8312 wrote:I really think this lineup is gonna be the best in 3 years provided everyone stays healthy.


I'm of the opinion that the Red Sox will be just fine offensively, not falling too far behind last year's squad; however given that the 2003 and 2004 Red Sox were amongst the top 20 offenses in AL history, this is homer-speak, but perhaps you'd admit to that. ;-)


Well a little bit :-D
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Postby El Gaupo » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:41 pm

team 1 slg 450 Avg 276 Runs 886 Rbis 847

team 2 slg 454 Avg 281 runs 910 Rbis 863

Team 2 upgrades at 1B, 2b, 3b and CF while this might not be enough to hold off last's runner up they should at least be considered 1A or 2 no worse
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Re: BEST LINEUP IN THE AL?

Postby mcqfesijiba » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:55 pm

Belle4Hall88 wrote:#13: Detroit Tigers:
Polanco, 2B
Guillen, SS
I-Rod, C
Ordonez, RF
Pena, DH
Shelton, 1B
Young, LF
Igne, 3B
Granderson, CF
Some corrections to the lineup:
No way will Pudge bat third and Polanco is already written into the second slot and Pena will not be an everyday player. It will look closer to this:
1) Guillen, SS
2) Polanco, 2B
3) Shelton, 1B
4) Ordonez, RF
5) Dmitri Young, DH
6) Pudge, C
7) Monroe, LF
8) Inge, 3B
9) Granderson, CF
Inge and Granderson are also candidates for lead off if the team want Guillen's power moved down a bit. Guillen and Ordonez both had their effectiveness limited last year due to injuries and the recovery from those injuries. The big question that could keep this lineup from ranking somewhere between 4th and 8th is how much we'll see the starters together. There's some injury-proneness in that lineup and we definitely saw that last year.
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Postby NZF » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:41 pm

El Gaupo wrote:team 1 slg 450 Avg 276 Runs 886 Rbis 847

team 2 slg 454 Avg 281 runs 910 Rbis 863

Team 2 upgrades at 1B, 2b, 3b and CF while this might not be enough to hold off last's runner up they should at least be considered 1A or 2 no worse



JT Snow, Mike Lowell and Coco Crisp are down grades.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
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Postby Wozzyck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:20 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:JT Snow, Mike Lowell and Coco Crisp are down grades.


Well, the likely starter is Kevin Youkilis, not J.T. Snow. Last year, Red Sox firstbasemen put up the line .279/.358/.436. Between the majors and AAA, Youkilis put up the lines .278/.400/.405 (79 AB) and .322/.459/.592 (152 AB) (unfortunately, not a large number of at-bats at either level, but Youkilis' ability to get on-base has been with him through much of his career). The 2006 ZiPS projection for Youkilis is .268/.400/.417. Though he's not a clear upgrade, I would expect him to outperform last year's 1B production (which isn't saying terribly much).

Lowell will most likely be a downgrade from the 2005 Mueller; however Crisp will probably be as good or better than Damon. Even in 2005, OPS+ has Crisp as a better hitter than Damon (119 to 113, in fact Damon has never had an OPS+ higher than 117). Here's last year's line for Damon, side by side with Crisp's 2006 ZiPS projection:

Damon (2005): .316/.366/.439
Crisp (2006 ZiPS): .321/.370/.466
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:27 pm

Anyone drafting Crisp over Damon?

Didn't think so.


Crisp is a decent player, he is not Damon from an offensive point of view when you look at the career numbers. And just because he beat out Damon by .004 OPS points (.810 to .806) in 05 is hardly a reason to go around proclaiming him an upgrade.
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Postby Wozzyck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:07 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:Anyone drafting Crisp over Damon?

Didn't think so.


I wouldn't either, but SB don't compose 1/5 of one's offense in real baseball.

TheYanks04 wrote:Crisp is a decent player, he is not Damon from an offensive point of view when you look at the career numbers.


Given that Damon's 6 years older, is that really an appropriate measure?

Here's OPS+ for Damon and Crisp for their age 23-25 seasons (I'd say he compares pretty favorably):

Damon: 88, 98, 116
Crisp: 78, 106, 119

TheYanks04 wrote:And just because he beat out Damon by .004 OPS points (.810 to .806) in 05 is hardly a reason to go around proclaiming him an upgrade.


I'm really only reacting to someone saying that he's a downgrade, which there's little reason to believe. (Though you might want to acknowledge that Damon played half his games at Fenway, whereas, Crisp played half his games at the Jake when comparing stats, but whatever.)
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Postby El Gaupo » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:52 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:
El Gaupo wrote:team 1 slg 450 Avg 276 Runs 886 Rbis 847

team 2 slg 454 Avg 281 runs 910 Rbis 863

Team 2 upgrades at 1B, 2b, 3b and CF while this might not be enough to hold off last's runner up they should at least be considered 1A or 2 no worse



JT Snow, Mike Lowell and Coco Crisp are down grades.


Really., based on what? FYI JT Snow isn't starting.


"If one takes the 2006 projections in the Bill James guide, Crisp's OPS will be .790 with 13 homers; Damon's .786 with 12 homers; Loretta's is .769, compared to the combined .729 Boston had at second in 2005, and it was only above .700 because of Graffanino and Cora the last two months. Youkilis' OPS projects to be .837 with 14 homers; Millar's .802 with 13; Lowell's 782 with 16 homers (projected in Florida's park); and Mueller's .786 with 12 homers (projected in Fenway). Even Gonzalez's projected numbers against Renteria aren't so bad -- .691 with 13 homers for Gonzalez vs. .749 with 10 for Renteria. And by the defensive evaluation system used by one AL team, Gonzalez was one of the top three defensive shortstops, along with Pittsburgh's Jack Wilson and Houston's Adam Everett. Even Dustan Mohr had a .907 OPS vs. left-handed pitchers, albeit playing half his games at Coors Lite.

I know compared to you Bill James is an idiot
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:03 pm

El Gaupo wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:
El Gaupo wrote:team 1 slg 450 Avg 276 Runs 886 Rbis 847

team 2 slg 454 Avg 281 runs 910 Rbis 863

Team 2 upgrades at 1B, 2b, 3b and CF while this might not be enough to hold off last's runner up they should at least be considered 1A or 2 no worse



JT Snow, Mike Lowell and Coco Crisp are down grades.


Really., based on what? FYI JT Snow isn't starting.


"If one takes the 2006 projections in the Bill James guide, Crisp's OPS will be .790 with 13 homers; Damon's .786 with 12 homers; Loretta's is .769, compared to the combined .729 Boston had at second in 2005, and it was only above .700 because of Graffanino and Cora the last two months. Youkilis' OPS projects to be .837 with 14 homers; Millar's .802 with 13; Lowell's 782 with 16 homers (projected in Florida's park); and Mueller's .786 with 12 homers (projected in Fenway). Even Gonzalez's projected numbers against Renteria aren't so bad -- .691 with 13 homers for Gonzalez vs. .749 with 10 for Renteria. And by the defensive evaluation system used by one AL team, Gonzalez was one of the top three defensive shortstops, along with Pittsburgh's Jack Wilson and Houston's Adam Everett. Even Dustan Mohr had a .907 OPS vs. left-handed pitchers, albeit playing half his games at Coors Lite.

I know compared to you Bill James is an idiot



No compared to everyone who did not think the Sox did not need Urbina when they had Alan Embree, James is an idiot....ie compareed to everyone James is an idiot.

Unless of course you take his handbook to be a little blue book and want to drink the kool-aid cause he says so.

I mean if Bll James, that impartial Red Sox computer geek is saying that Crisp is more valuable a player than Damon, who are we to argue right?
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Postby Wozzyck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:28 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:No compared to everyone who did not think the Sox did not need Urbina when they had Alan Embree, James is an idiot....ie compareed to everyone James is an idiot.

Unless of course you take his handbook to be a little blue book and want to drink the kool-aid cause he says so.

I mean if Bll James, that impartial Red Sox computer geek is saying that Crisp is more valuable a player than Damon, who are we to argue right?


Uninformed AND spiteful; quite a combo.
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