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coco crisp to bosox for marte and mota

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Postby KOSTAS » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:25 pm

Crisp is an upgrade over Michaels- that's for sure. They made the right choice. Boston will not give their CF job to a career 4th outfielder...and cop beater I might add.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:27 pm

I like this trade for the Tribe.
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Postby KOSTAS » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:28 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:I like this trade for the Tribe.


of course you do ;-)
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Postby Ender » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:47 pm

I like this trade for both sides, the Sox want to win NOW and crisp in CF will help them do it. The tribe have a viable replacement for the top of the lineup and Mota will be an upgrade for their bullpen which wasn't looking so great. Marte should be an upgrade by the end of the year and should help keep their window of opportunity open for an extra year if he turns into the star he is expected to be.

And before anyone points out my previous comments, that was when Peralta was part of the deal, if they traded Peralta/Crisp and got back Mota/Marte and a prospect I'd hate the deal.
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Postby KOSTAS » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:49 pm

Ender wrote:I like this trade for both sides, the Sox want to win NOW and crisp in CF will help them do it. The tribe have a viable replacement for the top of the lineup and Mota will be an upgrade for their bullpen which wasn't looking so great. Marte should be an upgrade by the end of the year and should help keep their window of opportunity open for an extra year if he turns into the star he is expected to be.

And before anyone points out my previous comments, that was when Peralta was part of the deal, if they traded Peralta/Crisp and got back Mota/Marte and a prospect I'd hate the deal.


Trust me, Peralta was NEVER part of the deal- that was silly from the get go. Peralta was never going anywhere.
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Postby brandnew » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:02 pm

I guess only time will tell.
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Postby The Cow » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:45 pm

I think the Tribe would part with Aubrey, Brandon Phillips or Jason Davis quite easily. Aubrey due to injuries and the talent in the Tribe's farm system at 1B. Phillips is out of options. As for Davis well he has a power arm, but the Tribe could deal him, alot of talk about that.
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Postby Trot Nixon » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:00 pm

BOOOO to the trade!
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Thanks chipper!!!!

There is such a thing called clutch and David Ortiz is the modern day definition of it
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Postby The Cow » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:50 pm

Ender wrote:I like this trade for both sides, the Sox want to win NOW and crisp in CF will help them do it. The tribe have a viable replacement for the top of the lineup and Mota will be an upgrade for their bullpen which wasn't looking so great. Marte should be an upgrade by the end of the year and should help keep their window of opportunity open for an extra year if he turns into the star he is expected to be.

And before anyone points out my previous comments, that was when Peralta was part of the deal, if they traded Peralta/Crisp and got back Mota/Marte and a prospect I'd hate the deal.


Isn't the Tribe trying to win now as well??? Michaels is a downgrade to Crisp. IF Marte pans out then this could be a good deal for the Tribe. IF IF IF. Coco will be a good OF for the Sox. Marte MAY be a good 3B/OF for the Tribe.

If I were a Tribe player and we just won 93 games I would not be very happy that we just dealt are #2 hitter for a prospect who may have a bum arm!

Is it too early to start the "Their is always next year" chant???
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Postby Wozzyck » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:56 pm

As its been presented, I would say that Cleveland would win this trade, however:

1) The only confirmation of such a deal is coming from someone's brother and the Boston Herald's Tony Massarotti, neither of whom I have much confidence in. The more reliable Boston Globe has yet to confirm the trade after 12+ hr. Assuming that it does happen, I would imagine that there are some (possibly mitigating) details that have been left unreported.

2) Some of these details probably involve an exchange of prospects, and (given the age and projected performance/career for Marte) probably more quality headed in the Boston direction than the other. Ryan Garko certainly makes a lot of sense, and one doesn't have to assume that Shapiro is incompetent to consider his inclusion. Garko is an interesting offensive prospect, though he'll be 25 and he's apparently not much of a catcher and would likely have had to switch positions even if he wasn't blocked by Martinez.

3) Even though, from what I know, I would prefer the promise of Marte to that of Crisp, perhaps Crisp has been somewhat short-changed. This is a copy of a post by Eric Van at sonsofsamhorn.com, where he considers the projections for Crisp made by James and Shandler:

Bill James: .296 / .348 / .442

Ron Shandler: .290 / .339 / .468

However, he'd be moving from the second worst hitter's park in MLB, 2003-5 (tied with RFK and Dodger Stadium) to the fourth best. In particular, playing half your games at the Jake reduces HR for a RHB by 14%, while Fenway gives a 6.5% boost. James' projection of 13 HR becomes 16, Shandler's 20 becomes 25. James projects 34 2B, 4 3B, which becomes 38 2B, 5 3B.

BA gets a boost (from -2% to +1.5%). Let's see . . .

Crisp in Fenway, BJ, something like .307 / .358 / .479 (Damon: .292 / .361 / .425)

RS, something like .300 / .348 / .514 (Damon: .295 / .359 / .429)


In my mind, a lot hinges on how well Crisp can play CF. He's certainly a very good LF, but when he's played CF, the metrics show him to be somewhat spotty. We'll see. But the above would be excellent production from a CF.

4) Finally for those of you bemoaning the fact that the Red Sox should have just traded Mota for Michaels, what makes you believe that this was/is a possibility? The Phillies are apparently willing to trade him for a middle reliever that they believe is of comparable value, not just any old middle reliever that's thrown at them and not from any compulsion to help the Red Sox out. Betancourt and Riske are both superior options.
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