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coco crisp to bosox for marte and mota

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Postby GreenMonsterGoon » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:18 am

I have to disagree with both sides here. This deal is even for both teams involved.

Sox get probably the best OF that was still available via trade or free agency. His #'s are comparable to Damon's and should spike not becuase of his move to Boston, but his age. He has yet to hit his prime.

Ron Shandler notes
A Rising PX rate plus rising FB rate should mean 20 home runs in 2006


Now we all know those days are over for Damon. So this is an upgrade for the Sox.

Indians fill a major whole with the acquisition of Mota. Now you can cite is 4.70 ERA and say he is done, but look at his #'s after fully recovering from the injury.

Marte has a lot of executives intrigued. That is why people say he is a top 5 in all of baseball prospect. There is extensive concern he will need major surgery and that may be the cause of his .220 BA in the Arizona Fall League.

There are questions on both sides, but both sides got better because they dealt parts they could both live without.
D-Mat, Schilling, Beckett, and Papelbon - Wow!
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Postby Ron Santo » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:20 am

KOSTAS wrote:that's your opinion, but I will put my money behind Theo anyday.

Time will tell. That's why they play the games. Arroyo is a fine pitcher and he gives the Sox insurance and maybe the deepest staff in the AL this year. Pitching and defense wins and adding a great defensive OF in Crisp and a good gloveman like Agone _without_ having to give up an everyday position player or more importantly, a quality arm is a great move.

Let's see who Cleveland can send out there in the #4 and #5 spots this year. Marte won't help them til 2007. They lost defense and offense in their OF not to mention their #2 hitter. Cleveland is a weaker team in 2006 and the Sox strengthend themselves considerably.

Just remember this post next Fall.


Why should I remember the posting of another pompous Red Sox fan who says the latest move is brilliant and the team is great? I'm sure there will be plenty more throughout the season
I don't see the deepest staff in AL either:
Toronto: Halladay, Burnett, Chacin, Towers, Lilly
Minnesota: Santana, Radke, Silva, Lohse, Liriano
Chicago: Buehrle, Vazquez, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, (McCarthy)
Oakland: Zito, Harden, Haren, Loiaza, Blanton, (Kennedy, Saarloos)

I feel all of those rotations are better than Boston's, though admittedly Toronto is based on potential.

Marte is ready to play now, and Cleveland has Franklin Guetierrez to replace Crisp in the near future.
Last edited by Ron Santo on Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Niffoc4 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:43 am

tribefan wrote:
brandnew wrote:
KOSTAS wrote:$20 says the other way around. Cleveland will regret this one- especially in 2006 when the Red Sox get to the playoffs and they don't.

Until we know who the other prospects are, it's way too early to jusge this deal. I bet Theo smartly wrestled one of Cleveland's fine young 1B prospects in this deal, filling a big need for Boston in 2007 and beyond.

This was a great move by Boston in filling one of their key holes by trading from their depth at 3B.


This sounds like blind homerism. I sincerely doubt Theo "smartly wrestled one of Cleveland's fine young 1B prospects to fill Boston's big need." I'm so sure that Shapiro just handed the Sox the next stud first bagger just because of Theo's sheer amazingness. Most of the time the player is not named when the deal is reported, it's because the player is not very significant. Crisp is not going to be a deciding factor in whether the Red Sox make the playoffs or not. If anything, Marte would be more of a deciding factor if/when Lowell sucks ass at 3B. Trading for Reed using Arroyo would have been a MUCH better deal.

They filled up a hole that could have been filled without trading a stud prospect at a position that has less depth than you think.


;-D good posting

I highly doubt the indians give up either aubrey or garko. Sharpiro isn't someone who just wandered in from the backwoods. He worked under john hart for several years before taking over. Didn't he deal colon who was going to leave anyway for sizemore, cliff lee, and brandon phillips??!! If crisp is the so-called gem in this deal (even better than marte) it stands to reason that the rest of the deal involving prospects lean toward the indians favor. I think this deal works for both teams - red sox this year and the indians for the next several.

Saying Shapiro worked under John Hart is not a good defense... while in Cleveland, Hart was known for trading away prospects like Brian Giles and Richie Sexson for RELIEF HELP (R. Rincon, Bob Wickman)! If anything, in defending Shapiro you should distance him from Hart and mention things like the Bartolo Colon trade, which netted him his starting CF (Sizemore) and Cliff Lee....

And something about Marte's hype slightly scares me... I know he is young and so he is projected to really tear it up later on, and .270 isn't bad in AAA but it isn't great either, so I think that Marte is tradeable because there is risk involved, no one knows if he will be an All-Star 3B or not...
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:05 am

tribefan wrote:
I highly doubt the indians give up either aubrey or garko. .




:-? :-? I agree a bit that they probably will not mess with Garko unless it is a special upgrade, but why not Aubrey? He has done nothing for the last 2 years but get hurt and now Stephen Head has easily pass Aubrey on the 1b depth charts for the future of Cleveland by now. I think if Cleveland can get anything for Aubrey, they need to jump on it. Garko has a much better bat then Aubrey and Head has done a lot more to help his case in Cleveland then Aubrey has.
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Postby lostraven » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:30 am

Does anyone know how much time/money is left on Aaron Boone's
contract? Was just curious considering that if Marte stays, Boone
loses out most likely. (Assuming that this deal gets finalized of course.)

-ShawnD
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:36 am

Aaron "Swing and a Miss" Boone 3b
2 years/$3.6M (2004-05), plus $4.5M 2006 club option
1 year/$3.75M (2006), plus $3.75M 2007 mutual option

We sall see how this all works out as it will more or less all hinge on what type of player Marte becomes. Red Sox gave up a lot for what amounts to a decent but not great OF.
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Postby lostraven » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:55 am

Thanks, Yanks ;-D

So 2007 is a mutual option. Interesting. As others have stated,
let's see how this plays out. My gut instinct says that as long as
Marte's arm is truly in good shape, the Sox only gain in the
immeadiate short term.

-ShawnD
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Postby Ender » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:59 am

Deepest doesn't mean best, he means deepest because they have 7 to 8 SP that are all viable to make the rotation. Most teams have 4 real starters and 2 or 3 competing for the #5, the red sox actually have around 7 starters who most likely should be starting for some team.
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Postby thedude » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:15 pm

Ender wrote:Deepest doesn't mean best, he means deepest because they have 7 to 8 SP that are all viable to make the rotation. Most teams have 4 real starters and 2 or 3 competing for the #5, the red sox actually have around 7 starters who most likely should be starting for some team.


The Red Sox potentially have a very good staff depending on schilling and Beckett's health.


The Red Sox would be better off trading mota to Philly for Jason Michaels. Keep Marte in case Lowell's fall in offense is real.
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Postby daullaz » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:22 pm

thedude wrote:
Ender wrote:Deepest doesn't mean best, he means deepest because they have 7 to 8 SP that are all viable to make the rotation. Most teams have 4 real starters and 2 or 3 competing for the #5, the red sox actually have around 7 starters who most likely should be starting for some team.


The Red Sox potentially have a very good staff depending on schilling and Beckett's health.


The Red Sox would be better off trading mota to Philly for Jason Michaels. Keep Marte in case Lowell's fall in offense is real.


Honestly, if the Phils are giving away Michaels for just a mediocre RP, the Red Sox should have been first in line for him. He's not a can't miss stud or anything, but he can hold his own if given the chance.
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