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Wins vs. Quality Starts

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Postby mamorris » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:35 pm

Yeah, I agree QS should be used instead of Ws. QS's isn't a perfect stat, but nobody pretends it is. Without question though, it's better than wins and losses, but baseballers are such a conservative lot you aren't going to budge them any time soon.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:42 pm

The difference is though that we, as Fantasy players, don't have Scott Boras/ Theo Epstein/ etc. pulling out the numbers when they are haggling to use for our analysis. All we have is what's on the net so QS WOULD, in fact, be a better stat to use, if you are drafting for SP arms.

OTOH, it does add an amusing element to the draft if the element of real world lineups, divisional strengths, park factors and all of that are tossed into the mix. I guess both are fun to use. I kind of am inclined to use as many stats as I can for FBL purposes. Depending, of course, on how the 5,000 emails amongst the league will go!! hee hee... :-D
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Postby Mercer Boy » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:44 pm

Threads that scroll horizontally are a pain. :,-(

In the words of Brad Hamilton, "Learn it, know it, Live it."

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Postby bleach168 » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:13 pm

What kills me is when a setup guy or closer comes in and blows the save but vultures the win.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED FOR PITCHING BADLY!
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Postby HOOTIE » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:17 pm

bleach168 wrote:What kills me is when a setup guy or closer comes in and blows the save but vultures the win.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED FOR PITCHING BADLY!


Closers get rewarded all the time. Guys can save 30+ easily with 5 eras. That's why the save stat might be the worst stat in bb. You can get a save with a 18.00 era (2 earned runs in 1 inning). QS is at 4.50 max, and that doesn't happen much. It's far better then the TERRIBLE save stat that now is used.
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Postby bleach168 » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:25 am

Agree. The save stat is pretty bad too. But at least you can't give up 3+ runs and still get a save. However, you can give up 3 or way more runs and still notch a win. I say Wins are the worse stat with saves coming in second.
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Postby Tavish » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:31 am

bleach168 wrote:Agree. The save stat is pretty bad too. But at least you can't give up 3+ runs and still get a save. However, you can give up 3 or way more runs and still notch a win. I say Wins are the worse stat with saves coming in second.


Sure you can. All saves worry about is that the conditions are right when you enter the game, that you never give up the lead, and you finish the game. If I enter in the 8th with a one run lead, then my team scores 10 runs in the top of the 9th, I can give up 10 runs and still get a save.
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Postby wrveres » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:14 am

since we are discussing overrated stats ...

we need to discuss win shares
has anybody figured out the calculation for me yet? :-)
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Postby Ender » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:50 pm

I prefer wins to QS's, without wins a SP's team becomes almost meaningless when it comes to judging a player and that is not a good thing in my opinion. Hitters have R's and RBI are which are both heavily team dependent as well, pitchers need a team based stat. You need to not only know how good a player is but be able to put that into context based on his team, schedule etc and wins is a better stat than QS for that. QS is a goofy stat all around, any stat that treats 9 IP with 0 ER the same as 6 IP with 3 ER can't be all that valuable, especially one that says 6 IP with 3 ER is better than 9 IP with 4 ER. Wins is flawed but so is QS when it comes to actually judging a pitcher.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:46 pm

Ender wrote: QS is a goofy stat all around, any stat that treats 9 IP with 0 ER the same as 6 IP with 3 ER can't be all that valuable, especially one that says 6 IP with 3 ER is better than 9 IP with 4 ER.


I don't think QS is really all that goofy. It entails only 2 things. Innings (6 at least), and earned runs (3 or less). Now any pitcher that provides a QS, has in essence, given his team a chance to WIN. And that's what a mgr wants for a sp. As far as the Wins stat, how about the sp who gives up 6 runs in 5, and wins 7-6, to the sp who wins 3-2 in 9?

It's no surprise that Carpenter, Clemens, Pettitte were the top 3 in QS last year. Colon i believe ranked 23rd. What this tells me about Colon, was he had quite a few blow up games (4 runs or more), but run support saved his hide.
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