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Cubs need to stop planning for future every year..

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Cubs need to stop planning for future every year..

Postby dcskater619 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:30 am

If Jim Hendry is going to invest 16 million dollars over 3 years to Jacque Jones, then its time for them to move Felix Pie who has tremendous trade value. The Cubs FINALLY have an elite lead off hitter in Juan Pierre and for how much they payed him and how bad theyve been needing a player like him, they will sign him to a 3-4 year extention. Jacque Jones, IMO, will only be a good addition to the team if they can make another move to add a power bat to the lineup. Miguel Tejada would be the perfect addition to the cubs team. He would have 150 rbi potential in Wrigley especially with guys like Derrek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, and Juan Pierre in the lineup. This would make Jones valuable to the team as a left handed, doubles hitting OFer with good defense.

I'm praying that the Cubs make a trade for Tejada, whether it be a package of Prior + Pie or Zambrano + Pie or even Pie + Patterson + young pitchers (rich hill, angel guzman). After failing to sign Furcal, the Cubs definitely have the money to pay Tejada 12 million a year for the next 4 years and they still have a nice rotation along with probably now the best bullpen in the NL. Zambrano, Wood, Maddux, Jerome Williams, Rusch (or a free agent like millwood/weaver) would be more then suitable with a powerhouse lineup like that. I'd like to see Cedeno moved to the everyday 2B and then trade todd walker/corey patterson for a SP.

It's time to move some of the prospects before we see Pie turn into Corey Patterson..(who i still actually have faith in)
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Postby RugbyD » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:33 am

the one problem i've had with all the tejada talk is that i don't think adding him to the batting order is enough to compansate for the potentially disastrous pitching staff we would have if it doesn't go 70% right. I am perfectly OK with dealing Pie b/c his value is sky-high right now and he has nothing in the way of plate discipline. he is farther off from majors playability than most people think. I'm OK with trading prior, but in every potential deal I hear it seems like we'd be trading the entire future for a 2-year try at the playoffs, especially if you think Wood is a closer in 2 years instead of a starter.
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Re: Cubs need to stop planning for future every year..

Postby ThatDude » Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:09 am

dcskater619 wrote:I'm praying that the Cubs make a trade for Tejada



and im praying they dont.


you and i both want to win now, and you HAVE to have good pitching to do that, especially when the playoffs roll around. if either Prior or Zambrano is dealt for Tejada, thats a Lou Brock type of blunder plain and simple. 4 years, 8 years, 14 years, 30 years from now people will wonder how the hell something like this happened

at best, if Tejada can be had for prospects, thats a truckload of money committed to a proven above-average bat at a position which we already have unproven above-average bat. we all know that the Tribune folks are more about turning profits than fielding winners. they could afford to spend $10M a year on every position, but they never will. and for the money, Cedeno is more valuable than Tejada. especially so if you consider that paying Tejada his 50 or so million owed him the next 4 years, thats taking money away from re-signing current Cubs(Prior/Zambrano/Lee/Pierre), better FA's next season, or even from taking on salary in a better deal closer to the deadline.

im extremely bullish on Cedeno, and i dont want to see him go. he would probably be included in any Tejada deal, and in my mind, thats enough to nix a deal right there. ive got no problems trading Pie, not because i dont think he will be good, but because his value is high and with Murton/Pierre/Jones i think our OF is pretty well set for a few years. and with Cedeno making just a few hundred grand a year, that allows you to afford both Prior and Zambrano to anchor the staff after Wood and Maddux are gone after this season, as i dont think either will be re-signed.

Williams looks like he could be a solid enough back of the rotation guy, and hopefully 2 or 3 of Hill/Guzman/Marshall/Marmol/Pawelek/Gallagher will make big strides in their developments and make it known that they can contribute in a meaningful way to the big league club on the cheap by the time Wood and Maddux are gone. Dempster, Williamson, Eyre, and Howry should hold down the bullpen fairly well over the next few years as well, with a few spare parts/future Zambranos(look it up) from the farm team thrown in.


this kinda got longwinded, so ill just finish with this. at the price Tejada will cost, the Cubs have a much better shot of winning it all without him than they do with him.
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Postby stevethumb » Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:58 pm

while your post is well reasoned , one aspect of it can not be allowed to go unnoticed...lou brock was traded for ernie broglio...i don't think mprior or czambrano are in that category
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Re: Cubs need to stop planning for future every year..

Postby dcskater619 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:53 pm

ThatDude wrote:
dcskater619 wrote:I'm praying that the Cubs make a trade for Tejada



and im praying they dont.


you and i both want to win now, and you HAVE to have good pitching to do that, especially when the playoffs roll around. if either Prior or Zambrano is dealt for Tejada, thats a Lou Brock type of blunder plain and simple. 4 years, 8 years, 14 years, 30 years from now people will wonder how the hell something like this happened

at best, if Tejada can be had for prospects, thats a truckload of money committed to a proven above-average bat at a position which we already have unproven above-average bat. we all know that the Tribune folks are more about turning profits than fielding winners. they could afford to spend $10M a year on every position, but they never will. and for the money, Cedeno is more valuable than Tejada. especially so if you consider that paying Tejada his 50 or so million owed him the next 4 years, thats taking money away from re-signing current Cubs(Prior/Zambrano/Lee/Pierre), better FA's next season, or even from taking on salary in a better deal closer to the deadline.

im extremely bullish on Cedeno, and i dont want to see him go. he would probably be included in any Tejada deal, and in my mind, thats enough to nix a deal right there. ive got no problems trading Pie, not because i dont think he will be good, but because his value is high and with Murton/Pierre/Jones i think our OF is pretty well set for a few years. and with Cedeno making just a few hundred grand a year, that allows you to afford both Prior and Zambrano to anchor the staff after Wood and Maddux are gone after this season, as i dont think either will be re-signed.

Williams looks like he could be a solid enough back of the rotation guy, and hopefully 2 or 3 of Hill/Guzman/Marshall/Marmol/Pawelek/Gallagher will make big strides in their developments and make it known that they can contribute in a meaningful way to the big league club on the cheap by the time Wood and Maddux are gone. Dempster, Williamson, Eyre, and Howry should hold down the bullpen fairly well over the next few years as well, with a few spare parts/future Zambranos(look it up) from the farm team thrown in.


this kinda got longwinded, so ill just finish with this. at the price Tejada will cost, the Cubs have a much better shot of winning it all without him than they do with him.


actually, cedeno wouldnt be included in the deal for tejada..the orioles already know theres no chance they get prior AND cedeno..there was talk of the cubs adding neifi perez but i think the orioles could easily get another SS, either by signing alex gonzalez or shipping prospects (there own or the ones recieved by the cubs) for lugo. i just think tejada would put the cubs over the top, especially with how weak the cardinals have gotten.
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Postby ThatDude » Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:25 pm

stevethumb wrote:while your post is well reasoned , one aspect of it can not be allowed to go unnoticed...lou brock was traded for ernie broglio...i don't think mprior or czambrano are in that category


im assuming you mean Prior and/or Zambrano arent in Lou's catergory. i think Prior and/or Zambrano are both in the same catergory Lou was in back in '64. a young kid thats showing a lot of promise and i hope we dont give up on.

i dont mean that Tejada is equal to Broglio either, but the trade itself is very similiar. give up a very talented young kid for a few years of an older guy to hopefully push the team over the top.


we are looking at the Brock trade with 40 years of hindsight. its easy to say with 100% certainity who came out the best in that trade. and 40 years from now, i think it will be just as certain how bad the Cubs got screwed if a Prior or Zambrano for Tejada deal goes down
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Re: Cubs need to stop planning for future every year..

Postby ThatDude » Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:36 pm

dcskater619 wrote:i just think tejada would put the cubs over the top, especially with how weak the cardinals have gotten.


and i think if any one, and just one, of the following group are lost in a deal to get Tejada, we will become a worse team not only this year, but for the next few at least


Prior, Zambrano, Aramis, Cedeno, Murton, Hill, Guzman, Marmol, Pawelek, Gallagher
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Re: Cubs need to stop planning for future every year..

Postby dcskater619 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:09 pm

ThatDude wrote:
dcskater619 wrote:i just think tejada would put the cubs over the top, especially with how weak the cardinals have gotten.


and i think if any one, and just one, of the following group are lost in a deal to get Tejada, we will become a worse team not only this year, but for the next few at least


Prior, Zambrano, Aramis, Cedeno, Murton, Hill, Guzman, Marmol, Pawelek, Gallagher


i would hate to see the cubs lose derrek lee to free agency if they didnt make a deal for tejada and then have to stock up on power bats next season.
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Re: Cubs need to stop planning for future every year..

Postby ThatDude » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:24 pm

dcskater619 wrote:
ThatDude wrote:
dcskater619 wrote:i just think tejada would put the cubs over the top, especially with how weak the cardinals have gotten.


and i think if any one, and just one, of the following group are lost in a deal to get Tejada, we will become a worse team not only this year, but for the next few at least


Prior, Zambrano, Aramis, Cedeno, Murton, Hill, Guzman, Marmol, Pawelek, Gallagher


i would hate to see the cubs lose derrek lee to free agency if they didnt make a deal for tejada and then have to stock up on power bats next season.


if they trade for Tejada, then the money spent on him pretty much ensures that one of Prior/Zambrano/Lee will be lost to free agency.

IMO, Prior+Zambrano+Lee is better than substituting one of those three with Tejada


if we could work Lee into a deal for Tejada, shift Cedeno over to 2nd and have some Walker/Mabry platoon kinda thing at 1st, it might work out alright. provided we dont lose any key prospects in the deal. but something like that wont ever happen.
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