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Marte for Crisp close.....

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Postby Apollo » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:18 pm

Well, we can sit here arguing about Marte vs. Crisp all day, but more importantly--is this rumor still alive?
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Postby brandnew » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:23 pm

The Cow wrote:The Braves could have put Marte in the OF and start him over Francouer or Kelly Johnson. That tells me the Braves like Johnson and Francouer better than Marte. I don't care how fast a team rushes a player through the minors it does not make him a better player. Marte could play in AAA as an insurance policy for an OF or Chipper. The Braves did not have to deal the guy. The Braves did need a SS, but to deal Marte a supposedly top prospect for an average at best SS in Renteria tells me that Marte just isn't that good.


No... not even close. You're talking out of your ass now. The Braves are an organization that values defense tremendously. They took a look at Marte in the OF for about a month, and he was horrid. That was the reason they didn't want him in the OF. They're not a team that will play a player anywhere to get his bat in the lineup (unfortunately). This is also one of the reasons they acquired a former GG SS, over a decent fielding SS in Betemit. There's no proof that the Braves like Johnson or Francoeur over Marte, those two played positions of need for the Braves, while Marte's position was blocked by the team's best player.

Renteria, by statistics, is an average SS. But around the league, he's thought of very highly; probably the reason he got a 40 Million dollar contract.

The fact that you grade a player's talent based on his trade value tells ME that you have no real knowledge of baseball at all. You trying to tell me Scott Kazmir sucks too?
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Postby The Cow » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:34 am

brandnew wrote:
The Cow wrote:The Braves could have put Marte in the OF and start him over Francouer or Kelly Johnson. That tells me the Braves like Johnson and Francouer better than Marte. I don't care how fast a team rushes a player through the minors it does not make him a better player. Marte could play in AAA as an insurance policy for an OF or Chipper. The Braves did not have to deal the guy. The Braves did need a SS, but to deal Marte a supposedly top prospect for an average at best SS in Renteria tells me that Marte just isn't that good.


No... not even close. You're talking out of your ass now. The Braves are an organization that values defense tremendously. They took a look at Marte in the OF for about a month, and he was horrid. That was the reason they didn't want him in the OF. They're not a team that will play a player anywhere to get his bat in the lineup (unfortunately). This is also one of the reasons they acquired a former GG SS, over a decent fielding SS in Betemit. There's no proof that the Braves like Johnson or Francoeur over Marte, those two played positions of need for the Braves, while Marte's position was blocked by the team's best player.

Renteria, by statistics, is an average SS. But around the league, he's thought of very highly; probably the reason he got a 40 Million dollar contract.

The fact that you grade a player's talent based on his trade value tells ME that you have no real knowledge of baseball at all. You trying to tell me Scott Kazmir sucks too?


I pointed out Marte's trade value to try an educate you people that Marte is not as highly regarded in MLB as he is in this forum. The Kazmir trade is completely different as the team that gave up the young pitcher, the Mets are an organization that isn't run nearly as well as the Braves. When I see the Braves trade a player it makes me think, hmm maybe he just isn't that good. If Marte was as good as you guys think he would not have been dealt for an average SS. The D-Rays have Delmon Young behind some talented OFs, but I doubt they would deal Young because well Delmon Young is a far superior talent to Marte. Delmon young is by definition a top prospect. Marte well he is not in Delmon Youngs class. I know its not fair to compare Delmon Young and the mediocre Marte, but if you guys are going to call marte a top prospect well he should be compared to a top prospect.
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Postby The Cow » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:36 am

With Damon signing with the Yanks the Red Sox sure would love to have a CF like Crisp. I expect the Crisp talks to heat up.
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Postby brandnew » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:50 am

Delmon doesn't have half the plate discipline that Marte has. At this point, Marte is a far more polished and ready prospect.
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Postby The Cow » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:56 am

What you call plate discipline I call wasted chances to get a hit. Instead of watching strike 3 zoom by take a rip it has worked for VLAD. Just my 2 cents but if the D_Rays were to offer Delmon for Marte the Red Sox would jump all over that offer. Marte a more ready prospect thats a joke. Marte is a .270 hitter in the minors Delmon well over .300 both have high slugging %, OPS etc.
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Postby brandnew » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:58 am

Wow... I'm done arguing with you, your fundamental theories on baseball are flawed. I don't see how I can legitimately argue baseball with you if you think that taking a walk is a bad thing, and that anyone who doesn't try to be Vlad is bad.
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Postby The Cow » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:08 am

No what I think is that a talent like Delmon can learn as much plate discipline as needed. When you are as talented as Delmon you just use your God given talent to hit oh .330. I mean if you think Delmon was doing something wrong by hitting .330 well tell him. I can hear you now "excuse me Mr. Young, but you need to walk more to improve your OBP it would make you a better player statistically speaking." When a player is a top talent like Delmon he can adjust as needed. If a player is on the talent level as say a Marte well then he needs all the help he can get. I mean would have told a free swinging VLAD that he needed to walk more???
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Postby The Cow » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:32 am

New twist in the Crisp to Boston deal:

I pulled this off the Tribe message board so take it with a grain of salt. The person that says this deal is going to happen also claims to have inside information again take that with a grain of salt.

The new deal:

Red Sox get:
Crisp
Jason Davis
Ben Fransico minor league OF that BOS really wants

Tribe gets:
Marte minor leaguer that the Tribe really wants
Trot Nixon
Bronson Arroyo

There are also rumors that the Tribe is getting Manny for Crisp and prospects with BOS eating some cash.

Just passing this along
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Postby brandnew » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:54 am

IMO both of those deals are false... I don't think Boston is dumb enough to trade Manny Ramirez AND CASH for Coco freaking Crisp. He's a decent little player, but this is Manny.

And, Marte alone was too much for Crisp... Trot and Arroyo is wayyy too much. If this deal happens, you can bet Sox fans will be begging to get Theo back.
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