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Point Systems

Postby shortsavage » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:42 pm

I know there have been hundreds of debates around here about points systems versus roto leagues. I'm not interested in debating which one is better.

I'm curious if anyone else has had long-term success with a point system. Has your league been happy with any sort of points system? If so, what steps did you take to create it (not what categories do you use and how you weight them)?
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Postby djacks » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:18 pm

I'm torn between which one is "better"...I actually play both and probably prefer a points system. I'm in a 12 team keeper that was established 7 years ago and it was set up by a guy who mirrored it after another league he was already in. We've tweaked some points here and there in the last few years to give a little more value to SB's and relief pitchers. Here's our current format:

Single = 1pt
Double = 2pts
Triple = 3 pts
HR = 3 pts
Run = 1pt
RBI = 1pt
SB = 2pts

Win = 6pts
Loss = -3pts
Save = 3pts
ER = -1pt
K = 1pt

This scoring system favors power hitters and strikeout pitchers, although since we increased SB's from 1pt to 2pts its leveled out the hitters a little bit. There is a fairly significant difference between what pitchers score and what batters score but it doesn't seem to cause problems or change keeper values any. Closers are never kept.

Hope this helps... ;-D
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Postby LukeW9027 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:54 pm

i find that its nice with a roto league, it keeps thing simple, and it makes it so you cant just draft hr hitters, or speedsters, it makes you build a balanced team. kind of like a real MLB GM.
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Re: Point Systems

Postby Arlo » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:00 pm

shortsavage wrote:If so, what steps did you take to create it (not what categories do you use and how you weight them)?

I think the key is to take the scoring system you intend to use and test it with actual stats (such as the previous season). One of the main problems of points scoring is that you often see an extreme imbalance between hitting and pitching, and a little advance testing can go a long way toward avoiding that.
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Re: Point Systems

Postby shortsavage » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:04 pm

Arlo wrote:
shortsavage wrote:If so, what steps did you take to create it (not what categories do you use and how you weight them)?

I think the key is to take the scoring system you intend to use and test it with actual stats (such as the previous season). One of the main problems of points scoring is that you often see an extreme imbalance between hitting and pitching, and a little advance testing can go a long way toward avoiding that.


My league and I are working with the goal of having pitching and hitting weighted evenly. CBS has a feature where you can test scoring systems. Hopefully we can work something out.
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Re: Point Systems

Postby JTWood » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:19 pm

shortsavage wrote:
Arlo wrote:
shortsavage wrote:If so, what steps did you take to create it (not what categories do you use and how you weight them)?

I think the key is to take the scoring system you intend to use and test it with actual stats (such as the previous season). One of the main problems of points scoring is that you often see an extreme imbalance between hitting and pitching, and a little advance testing can go a long way toward avoiding that.


My league and I are working with the goal of having pitching and hitting weighted evenly. CBS has a feature where you can test scoring systems. Hopefully we can work something out.

Arlo's right. Apply the system against the historical stats to see how it works. I have a scoring system that has an average disparity between pitching and hitting of only a couple % points per year. I spent a lot of time tweaking the system against the stats from the three years prior, and that really made me confident in the system before I ever used it. This year, the difference between the top 250 pitchers and 250 hitters was only .045 of a % point under my scoring system. Now I'm not saying it's the perfect system. I'm just saying that it achieved my goal of pitcher/hitting balance.

Also, instead of using CBS, use dougstats. You can d/l a ton of prior years' data into Excel. Then it's just a matter of creating a simple formula and putting in the trial-and-error time.

If you have specific questions, feel free to PM me.

;-D
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Postby Mugwump » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:12 pm

we have tweaked ours over the years too. we have made some minor adjustments and gotten our bats and pitchers to be pretty close. to reiterate JT a bit, if you are not happy with how the scoring system weighs/values players by year's end, doing some simple math can help you adjust for next year.

btw, JT thanks for the help last season. we have fine tuned some of our scoring cats to help bring up our SPs.

and as far as closers go, we rarely keep them either. is that pretty standard as far as all pts leagues go? it seems to be the case. gagne & rivera are the only two that have ever been kept in our league.
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Postby Mugwump » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:18 pm

in addition, we use a top five/bottom five approach to wins and loses. each week the top five scoring teams get a win, bottom five get a loss. i think this helps bring pts leagues to a roto 'arena' in that you're not stuck with a strict head to head situation, which i hate in fantasy sports. the head to head element of fantasy is a downfall in my opinion. the idea is to accumulate points over a period of time, against a whole league. i want to see a natural progression of pt accumulation. head to head defeats that. i like the top5/bottom5 variation that we use. does anybody else use this in their pts league?
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