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Postby Shamsky69 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:05 pm

Though I agree that the Marte deal makes sense for the Sox and that it was silly for the Rays to back away from any Lugo-Marte talks, reading this thread reminds me of a conversation my buddy and I were having last year while watching Marte play.

Where does all this love for Marte by Braves fans come from? Why all the hype? Some is okay, but this much? This was the moment we coined the term 'Wright-envy'.

Wright-envy is a psychosis that manifests itself in a foolish hoping that your top 3rd-base prospect is the equal (the second coming, if you will) of the real deal, the wright-stuff - Mr. David Wright. The phenomenon is of course most common amongst Braves fans, what with Wright being a member of a hated rival and all.

I know Marte has been a touted prospect for a while now, and I know he's put up some numbers along the way. But I just have this feeling he'll never really turn into the all-star the Braves fans always dreamed of. Why do you think he was being shopped for guys like Lugo and the overpaid Renteria? (this isn't to say that Renteria isn't a fine player, one who I'm certain will be remembered in 50 years as being better than Marte)

Maybe I'm wrong - maybe Marte will one day become a great one. But listen, Wright-envy can be a dangerous thing; it can make you see things that aren't there, make you think you're sitting on more than you actually are.

Anyway, believe what you will. I know we can all agree that sometimes it's just plain impossible to project who will make it and who won't. And I know the Braves & Sox fans are gonna jump on me for saying such things but honestly, Marte looked bad when I saw him. And I think comparisons of Marte to Wright are straight-up insane at this point. In my opinion, there are some people on this site who sweat prospects a little too hard.

Truth be told, I'd rather have Zimmerman if we're on the subject of 3rd-base prospects from the NL east.
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Postby thedude » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:05 pm

So i guess the 2006 order looks something like this:

CF-Damon (the Red Sox are the only team showing interest)
2b- Loretta
DH- Ortiz
LF-Manny (sounds like the trade market for him has fallen apart)
3b- Lowell (if he isn't traded)
c- Varitek
rf- Nixon (could be traded)
1b-Youkilis
SS- Cora/ Pedoria

This is a rough guess from what i predict happening. A lot could change. Marte might take over full time at third part way through the season if Lowell stinks and he is playing well.
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Postby stevethumb » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:08 pm

Amazinz wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:very slim chance of Marte becoming a Glaus type of hitter, Marte may reach Glaus's power numbers but his BA and other aspects will be much better then Glaus.

Well I definitely disagree here. He strikes out far too much to be anything better than a .275 hitter. Where is that breakout that was projected in 2004 then in 2005? It never came. It is time to rewrite those initial scouting reports on Marte. Even BA and other respected scouting reports are revisiting their opinions on Marte so it's not like I am just knocking him totally due to bias.
...BA has once again named marte as the braves #1 prospect w/glowing comentary..."marte's stroke has anatural slight uppercut that generates plenty of power..the ball jumps off his bat, and he drives the ball to all fields and is capable of hittting tape measure shots..he's an aggressive hitter who makes pitchers pay for their mistakes, though he can hit for a solid average and has patience at the plate..his walk rate increased substantially in 2005..in addition to being the quintessential power hitter at the hot corner, marte continues to improve upon his above average skills w/the glove..managers rated him the best defensive 3rd baseman in the International League--the fourth consecutive yearhe earned that honor in his league..he possesses excellent lateral movement and a strong, accurate arm..the braves also love marte's maturity and even-keeld approach to the game, both of which should lead to a seamless move to the majors once an opening arises"...i don't see anything here, amazin, that would indicate a downgrade
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Postby stevethumb » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:09 pm

look for the redsox to sign alex gonzalez (if his elbow is ok) and keep marte who will be an allstar for years after renteria has retired...generally good deal for both sides
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:14 pm

Maybe Marte and Wright shouldn't be compared because Wright is in the majors now but what's up with the short memories? :-D

Atlanta signed Marte as free agent in '00. The Mets drafted Wright with the 38th pick in the '01 draft. Marte and Wright both started their minor league careers in '01. They both played 3B for division rivals. Marte was initially projected to be better than Wright by scouting sites just as BA. These two players names were synonomous until Wright went to AAA and really started opening eyes.

So I apologize if this isn't a fair comparison but this has been an established comparison for the last 4 years. :-[
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Postby stevethumb » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:20 pm

Amazinz wrote:Maybe Marte and Wright shouldn't be compared because Wright is in the majors now but what's up with the short memories? :-D

Atlanta signed Marte as free agent in '00. The Mets drafted Wright with the 38th pick in the '01 draft. Marte and Wright both started their minor league careers in '01. They both played 3B for division rivals. Marte was initially projected to be better than Wright by scouting sites just as BA. These two players names were synonomous until Wright went to AAA and really started opening eyes.

So I apologize if this isn't a fair comparison but this has been an established comparison for the last 4 years. :-[
the big difference is dwright has had an opportunity to play everyday in the ML...perhaps amarte would have had a similar break out IF he got to play every day in 05...i don't think he will be as good as dwright but i gotta like his chances of putting up 40+ HRs in fenway
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Postby Shamsky69 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:25 pm

El Gaupo wrote:If Marte stays in Boston I would give him the edge over Wright due to park factors.


Please, stop now.


No, really - you're scaring me.


I'm serious, stop.


Please.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:39 pm

Amazinz wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:very slim chance of Marte becoming a Glaus type of hitter, Marte may reach Glaus's power numbers but his BA and other aspects will be much better then Glaus.

Well I definitely disagree here. He strikes out far too much to be anything better than a .275 hitter. Where is that breakout that was projected in 2004 then in 2005? It never came. It is time to rewrite those initial scouting reports on Marte. Even BA and other respected scouting reports are revisiting their opinions on Marte so it's not like I am just knocking him totally due to bias.




well wouldn't a 275 hitter be much better then the 240 glaus hitter you are comparing him to????? and why so much hostilities??? no where have I stated that I would not prefer Wright, I have just stated that Marte will be very valuable as well--in fact valuable enough to be a top option at 3b in all fantasy leagues in a very few years...
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:39 pm

stevethumb wrote: the big difference is dwright has had an opportunity to play everyday in the ML...perhaps amarte would have had a similar break out IF he got to play every day in 05...i don't think he will be as good as dwright but i gotta like his chances of putting up 40+ HRs in fenway

He has gotten a chance to play everyday at the minor league level. If he's not breaking out there I find it hard to believe he will do it at the ML level. Marte is a very good talent as the BA blurb points out but compare their opinions of Marte over the last 3 years and see how they have changed. I think the Braves felt the same way which is why they were willing to trade him when he was onced deemed untouchable.
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Postby George_Foreman » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:42 pm

Also bear in mind that Wrigth is a year older than Marte. ;-D

I am guessing that the Braves have soured on Marte to one extent or another, because otherwise trading him for a declining Renteria makes no sense. So I'll just assume that Schurholtz knows more than everyone else and that's why he made the deal.

Either way, I wouldn't be surprised to see Marte and Wright (along with MCab) being the top 3B in the league in another 5 years.
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