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M Cab's Value Now

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Postby SCARPARIELLI » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:15 pm

suresure, i can get behind brandnew's reasoning but a bunch of crazy talk started today where is Mcab is scoring 70 some runs. not gonna happen.
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Postby brandnew » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:08 pm

70-80 Runs is a ridiculous projection for MCab. He hits for a high average, and I expect his # of BB's to improve.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:00 pm

BritSox wrote:No, you're missing it. ARod has never reached the numbers he was putting up in Arlington in the Stadium, and he's a truly great player. I fail to see how you can miss that whether or not there is a guy on in front of you makes a difference to your RBI total, whether you're Barry Bonds or Kevin Millar. Or how about the lazy flyout Manny hit in Philly that went out? You can't seriously believe Pujols' stats would be exactly the same whether he played in SEA or COL, which is the logical implication of your argument? Why do you think statements such as 'and he spent most of his career in a pitcher's park' or vice versa are made as evidence for the greatness of HOFers?


Where did I say players stats would be exactly the same with the same lineup, ballpark?

Truly great players overcome lack of support and hitting in a pitcher's park, etc. The difference here is that I believe Miguel is truly special while you don't. He will hit .300, 40+ regardless of support.

And for those of you who think he will get less than 80 R, RBI. You need to get your head checked. How many players in MLB history hit .300, 30 HR and less than 80 R, RBI?
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Postby The Cow » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:13 am

Yoda wrote:
The Cow wrote:In this day and age teams have learned that if a team has one superstar bat and a bunch of average bats well hey lets pitch around the superstar. Miggy will be walked a ton this year. decreasing his RBIs and perhaps HRs, runs as well as they have NOBODY to knock him in. This situation is similar to a scenario like this: Albert Pujols gets traded to the Royals does his value drop? YES Albert is much more valuable with the Cards.

So yes Miggys numbers will drop evrything excpet walks and maybe averaGE.


Dude, Pujols would be a top 3 pick whether he played in SEA or COL. Same thing with Miggy. His value doesn't drop since he will only be 23 and developing. I don't see how he can hit .300, hit 30+ HRs and not score or drive in 80 runs.


I said I would expect Miggy to hit .3oo+ 80 runs(maybe 90, not 100), 100 RBI, 30+ HRs. Thats what I said. I don't know how you can say that Miggy's value will not drop it wil. As for Pujols if he were traded to K.C. his numbers would drop thus his value would drop. Maybe his draft position would remain the same, but his value would drop. Because a #3 pick with 100 RBIs is worth less than a #3 pick with 100 RBIs. Do the math lol.
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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:37 am

The Cow wrote:
Yoda wrote:
The Cow wrote:In this day and age teams have learned that if a team has one superstar bat and a bunch of average bats well hey lets pitch around the superstar. Miggy will be walked a ton this year. decreasing his RBIs and perhaps HRs, runs as well as they have NOBODY to knock him in. This situation is similar to a scenario like this: Albert Pujols gets traded to the Royals does his value drop? YES Albert is much more valuable with the Cards.

So yes Miggys numbers will drop evrything excpet walks and maybe averaGE.


Dude, Pujols would be a top 3 pick whether he played in SEA or COL. Same thing with Miggy. His value doesn't drop since he will only be 23 and developing. I don't see how he can hit .300, hit 30+ HRs and not score or drive in 80 runs.


I said I would expect Miggy to hit .3oo+ 80 runs(maybe 90, not 100), 100 RBI, 30+ HRs. Thats what I said. I don't know how you can say that Miggy's value will not drop it wil. As for Pujols if he were traded to K.C. his numbers would drop thus his value would drop. Maybe his draft position would remain the same, but his value would drop. Because a #3 pick with 100 RBIs is worth less than a #3 pick with 100 RBIs. Do the math lol.


We shall see. All signs are that he is truly a special player. He may very well overcome the lack of support. Remember that he's only 23.
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Postby sooner711 » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:28 am

The Cow wrote: Because a #3 pick with 100 RBIs is worth less than a #3 pick with 100 RBIs. Do the math lol.


Huh? :-?
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Postby SCARPARIELLI » Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:45 am

We shall see. All signs are that he is truly a special player. He may very well overcome the lack of support. Remember that he's only 23.


I agree except for 1 thing, he is 22.
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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:53 am

SCARPARIELLI wrote:
We shall see. All signs are that he is truly a special player. He may very well overcome the lack of support. Remember that he's only 23.


I agree except for 1 thing, he is 22.


23 in 06... ;-D
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Postby BritSox » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:07 am

Yoda wrote:
Where did I say players stats would be exactly the same with the same lineup, ballpark?

Truly great players overcome lack of support and hitting in a pitcher's park, etc. The difference here is that I believe Miguel is truly special while you don't. He will hit .300, 40+ regardless of support.

And for those of you who think he will get less than 80 R, RBI. You need to get your head checked. How many players in MLB history hit .300, 30 HR and less than 80 R, RBI?


No, that's not the difference at all. Find where anyone said he wouldn't hit a lot of homers and for a good average?

Brandnew and I were arguing that his projected run and RBI numbers might go down by about 10-15 apiece, due to having no-one before or after him, and this has an affect on his fantasy value, moving him down maybe 3-4 slots in our draft list. You denied this would be the case, which implies that you think that lineup protection doesn't matter at all. Your pujols/colorado/seattle example implied that you didn't think that park factors mattered either.

I mean, c'mon, if he got traded to the Yankees, his value would go up, right?
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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:20 am

BritSox wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Where did I say players stats would be exactly the same with the same lineup, ballpark?

Truly great players overcome lack of support and hitting in a pitcher's park, etc. The difference here is that I believe Miguel is truly special while you don't. He will hit .300, 40+ regardless of support.

And for those of you who think he will get less than 80 R, RBI. You need to get your head checked. How many players in MLB history hit .300, 30 HR and less than 80 R, RBI?


No, that's not the difference at all. Find where anyone said he wouldn't hit a lot of homers and for a good average?

Brandnew and I were arguing that his projected run and RBI numbers might go down by about 10-15 apiece, due to having no-one before or after him, and this has an affect on his fantasy value, moving him down maybe 3-4 slots in our draft list. You denied this would be the case, which implies that you think that lineup protection doesn't matter at all. Your pujols/colorado/seattle example implied that you didn't think that park factors mattered either.

I mean, c'mon, if he got traded to the Yankees, his value would go up, right?


You are still missing the point. People are not talking about downgrading him 3-4 slots. People are expecting him to get 80, R, RBI. That's a HGUE downgrade for someone who will almost definitely hit .300, 30+ HR.

As for lineup support... Take Vlad for example. His best years were in MTL with minimal support. I can't even recall anyone remotely good except for Vidro who was hurt 30% of the time. So you have no idea which players will step up when given the chance. My point is that you shouldn't downgrade players of Cabrera's caliber unless he shows you he can't produce. He has not done this yet.
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