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Question for Yankee fans..

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Postby luckygehrig » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:46 am

Just curious, where do you guys find range factors and those other fielding stats? I hate fielding percentage but have never been able to find a site that showed these other stats.
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Re: Question for Yankee fans..

Postby cannonarm21 » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:51 am

WharfRat wrote:
cannonarm21 wrote:
blankman wrote:
cannonarm21 wrote:I for one cannot see why they don't go after after Pierre. An outstanding leadoff hitter, who can steal bases and play great defense. Seems like a perfect fit, and they probably wouldn't have to give up too much considering Florida's fire sale.


I'm sorry, but these statements are wrong on every account.

He is not a good leadoff hitter, because he doesn't get on base enough. Jeter is much, much better.

He doesn't play great defense.

Florida was asking for a ton= Cano or Wang. He's not cheap and he's overpaid.


umm..
Jim Edmonds career fielding pct% .990
Andruw Jones .990
Juan Pierre .989
that't pretty good company

While I agree he doesn't have Jeter's on bas pct%, he makes their overall lineup better with Jeter moving down a spot. He has gone over 200 hits 4 or 5 times in his career

And you may need to look back at Pierre's SB's if I am wrong on EVERY account.

Oh and like I said in my original post..they will not have to give up much..as you may now be realizing


OK...Fielding percentage = amusingly bad for quantifying defensive ability. Saying Pierre plays great defense is kind've a joke.

He makes their lineup better by getting on base less? Not sure I follow your logic.

200 hits is only part of the game. If that's all you're going by, then you're overrating him.

He steals a lot, but also tends to get caught a lot. So even that is a risky proposition, although his % was better last year.

He's not a bad player, but don't overrate the guy.


Good points. I probably am overrating him a bit. When I mentioned it made their lineup better, I meant overall in the 1-2 spots by having Pierre/Jeter as opposed to Jeter/whoever else they had at #2 last year. I would never argue Jeter being a better leadoff hitter.

I appreciate your response with some facts, as opposed to just telling me that I am wrong. I was simply trying to start a discussion on the topic. I guess I came to the wrong forum.
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Re: Question for Yankee fans..

Postby DannyMyron89 » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:55 pm

WharfRat wrote:
cannonarm21 wrote:
blankman wrote:
cannonarm21 wrote:I for one cannot see why they don't go after after Pierre. An outstanding leadoff hitter, who can steal bases and play great defense. Seems like a perfect fit, and they probably wouldn't have to give up too much considering Florida's fire sale.


I'm sorry, but these statements are wrong on every account.

He is not a good leadoff hitter, because he doesn't get on base enough. Jeter is much, much better.

He doesn't play great defense.

Florida was asking for a ton= Cano or Wang. He's not cheap and

he's overpaid.


umm..
Jim Edmonds career fielding pct% .990
Andruw Jones .990
Juan Pierre .989
that't pretty good company

While I agree he doesn't have Jeter's on bas pct%, he makes their overall lineup better with Jeter moving down a spot. He has gone over 200 hits 4 or 5 times in his career

And you may need to look back at Pierre's SB's if I am wrong on EVERY account.

Oh and like I said in my original post..they will not have to give up much..as you may now be realizing


OK...Fielding percentage = amusingly bad for quantifying defensive ability. Saying Pierre plays great defense is kind've a joke.

He makes their lineup better by getting on base less? Not sure I follow your logic.

200 hits is only part of the game. If that's all you're going by, then you're overrating him.

He steals a lot, but also tends to get caught a lot. So even that is a risky proposition, although his % was better last year.

He's not a bad player, but don't overrate the guy.


so who do you suggest we get....stay with crosby...common this guy is such a defensive improvement over an old bernie and crosby, with his speed


give me a break
how did colon win the cy young??

the world is comming to an end...woody paige has a Hall of Fame vote
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Re: Question for Yankee fans..

Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:09 pm

DannyMyron89 wrote:
WharfRat wrote:
cannonarm21 wrote:
blankman wrote:
cannonarm21 wrote:I for one cannot see why they don't go after after Pierre. An outstanding leadoff hitter, who can steal bases and play great defense. Seems like a perfect fit, and they probably wouldn't have to give up too much considering Florida's fire sale.


I'm sorry, but these statements are wrong on every account.

He is not a good leadoff hitter, because he doesn't get on base enough. Jeter is much, much better.

He doesn't play great defense.

Florida was asking for a ton= Cano or Wang. He's not cheap and

he's overpaid.


umm..
Jim Edmonds career fielding pct% .990
Andruw Jones .990
Juan Pierre .989
that't pretty good company

While I agree he doesn't have Jeter's on bas pct%, he makes their overall lineup better with Jeter moving down a spot. He has gone over 200 hits 4 or 5 times in his career

And you may need to look back at Pierre's SB's if I am wrong on EVERY account.

Oh and like I said in my original post..they will not have to give up much..as you may now be realizing


OK...Fielding percentage = amusingly bad for quantifying defensive ability. Saying Pierre plays great defense is kind've a joke.

He makes their lineup better by getting on base less? Not sure I follow your logic.

200 hits is only part of the game. If that's all you're going by, then you're overrating him.

He steals a lot, but also tends to get caught a lot. So even that is a risky proposition, although his % was better last year.

He's not a bad player, but don't overrate the guy.


so who do you suggest we get....stay with crosby...common this guy is such a defensive improvement over an old bernie and crosby, with his speed


give me a break


Pierre is CRAP in the field. He's awful. He ranked DEAD LAST in Range Factor among eligible MLB CFs last year (2.21) and was in the lower half of the league in ZR (.882).

Crosby's numbers (though in a small sample size granted) were vastly better. He had a 3.61 RF and .966 ZR.

Crosby is a better fielder than Pierre. He is already on the team and we wouldn't have to trade Cano or Wang to get him.
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Postby WharfRat » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:16 pm

Saying Pierre is crap in the field isn't too far from the truth at all. Assuming a guy is a good defensive outfielder just because he's fast ignores things like footwork, ability to read the ball off the bat, throwing arm, etc. A guy with blazing speed but who can't read fly balls properly and who throws like a girl isn't going to be as good as a guy with good speed but solid fundamentals and a cannon.

If you think we should get Pierre because he'd be a better defensive player than Crosby, then the evidence pretty clearly suggests otherwise. I'm not so crazy about getting Pierre at all, because the only way he helps you (offense) is the last area they need much improvement. If it only means giving up Proctor and Henn as has been reported, then that's a tough deal to turn down, but come on, don't treat the guy like he's some type of defensive gem.

If they do get him, to me it would be more of a "why not" than a true case of need. Defense is a more important area for them to improve, and Crosby accomplishes that, while giving you about the same offensive ability as Bernie. With Bernie last year, the Yanks were an offensive juggernaut, don't forget. If you already have a cheap solution to your needs on the roster, why give anything up or take on additional salary?
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Postby WharfRat » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:18 pm

Oh yeah...does anybody else see the irony of this thread, which was started by CannonArm? ;-7

luckygehrig wrote:Just curious, where do you guys find range factors and those other fielding stats? I hate fielding percentage but have never been able to find a site that showed these other stats.


ESPN has them now, I just go there.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:07 pm

WharfRat wrote:Saying Pierre is crap in the field isn't too far from the truth at all. Assuming a guy is a good defensive outfielder just because he's fast ignores things like footwork, ability to read the ball off the bat, throwing arm, etc. A guy with blazing speed but who can't read fly balls properly and who throws like a girl isn't going to be as good as a guy with good speed but solid fundamentals and a cannon.

If you think we should get Pierre because he'd be a better defensive player than Crosby, then the evidence pretty clearly suggests otherwise. I'm not so crazy about getting Pierre at all, because the only way he helps you (offense) is the last area they need much improvement. If it only means giving up Proctor and Henn as has been reported, then that's a tough deal to turn down, but come on, don't treat the guy like he's some type of defensive gem.

If they do get him, to me it would be more of a "why not" than a true case of need. Defense is a more important area for them to improve, and Crosby accomplishes that, while giving you about the same offensive ability as Bernie. With Bernie last year, the Yanks were an offensive juggernaut, don't forget. If you already have a cheap solution to your needs on the roster, why give anything up or take on additional salary?


Well said.

If reports are true that Henn has great stuff in the minors, and could potentially become a decent major league pitcher, then I might even turn it down. Making the choice between Pierre and a 24 year old lefty with at least some potential might not be as cut and dry as people think since Pierre isn't really needed in the Bronx.
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Postby WharfRat » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:25 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:If reports are true that Henn has great stuff in the minors, and could potentially become a decent major league pitcher, then I might even turn it down. Making the choice between Pierre and a 24 year old lefty with at least some potential might not be as cut and dry as people think since Pierre isn't really needed in the Bronx.


This is very true as well. I'm not too big on Henn, I've read that he's lost a bit of his velocity since his unusually long TJ surgery recovery, and he pitched poorly in 2004. Apparently he went from pitching in the mid-90s to low 90s after the surgery, which took him something like 18 months to get back from. He did much better in AAA in 2005, and I think you have to give him a bit of a mulligan on his cup of coffee in the majors, but AFAIK there are still some questions about durability. But being a lefty with decent stuff makes him a valuable commodity, and if they didn't pull the trigger on the Pierre deal, I wouldn't be disappointed to have Henn at all. With the state of the upper echelons of the farm system, it's nice to have a guy with potential at Columbus.
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Postby MikeFromNY » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:11 pm

I might be a little late on this...but reading this thread has made me happy.

Most of the people I know overrate guys like Pierre, and it's very nice to see more than a few people who really understand this stuff.

;-D
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