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Bellhorn in Colorado...Hernandez in Chi'town, your thoughts.

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Bellhorn in Colorado...Hernandez in Chi'town, your thoughts.

Postby Clevelander » Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:02 pm

sorry if this strand is already going but i didnt see it yet.

i wanted to hear the views of others in this deal...
how will hernandez do in chi' town...?
and again with how bellhorn will do in colorado...?

i believe both could fair well, bellhorn could turn it around in that colorado park...while hernandez could get back to form...these guys didnt do so bad last year and have fallen into the pits with other decent hitters this year, can the change be good for both..?
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Postby Guest » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:29 pm

i dont see bellhorn being anything but a platoon player and i see a lot of strikeouts in hosey hernandez's future. i dont think either are worth picking up unless you are really desperate for a 3b since that is where hernandez is expected to play.
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Postby Madison » Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:15 pm

I don't see a bright future for either one of them.
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Postby wrveres » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:17 am

;-D
No way Dusty puts up with the K's... I think his stay in CHC may be short. IMO If there is a sleeper here it's Bellhorn.
I'll explain.
1) Coors has a way of turning below average players into produtive fantasy players. Last year, Jay Payton couldn't beat out Timo Perez. Thats why he ended up in Colorado. I imagine there are plenty of Roto-Owners that wouldn't mind having Payton.

2) This trade is just the begining. There will be more current starters moved before the deadline. Possibly opening up a spot for Bellhorn who can play many positions.

3) Bellhorn is a run producer, and if there was ever a ballpark that favored run producers.. it would be Coors. Alot more of those flyballs to the OF will fall in.

Even though his Career Coors stats don't look very promising, he would be my sleeper. I'll be watching closely over the next couple of days.

As for Jose. Dusty should just fine him say $1,000 everytime he swings at the first pitch. Dusty is not going to play this guy. He will be fed up with him just outside of two weeks. Something will have to give. Lets hope its Jose.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:46 am

[quote=
1) Coors has a way of turning below average players into produtive fantasy players. Last year, Jay Payton couldn't beat out Timo Perez. Thats why he ended up in Colorado. I imagine there are plenty of Roto-Owners that wouldn't mind having Payton. [/quote]


It didnt do much for Jose Hernandez. Or Brent Mayne, Jeff Cirillo, Neifi Perez, Mike Lansing, Jose Ortiz.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:52 am

[quote=

3) Bellhorn is a run producer, and if there was ever a ballpark that favored run producers.. it would be Coors. Alot more of those flyballs to the OF will fall in. [/quote]

Some thought the same for Jose Hernandez. Bellhorns a run producer? Since when? Bellhorns a 28 year old platoon player with occasional pop.
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Postby wrveres » Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:00 am

HOOTIE wrote:[quote= ME]
1) Coors has a way of turning below average players into produtive fantasy players. Last year, Jay Payton couldn't beat out Timo Perez. Thats why he ended up in Colorado. I imagine there are plenty of Roto-Owners that wouldn't mind having Payton.

It didnt do much for Jose Hernandez. Or Brent Mayne, Jeff Cirillo, Neifi Perez, Mike Lansing, Jose Ortiz.[/quote]
Oh trust me ... Bellhorn is worthless piece of .. But if there was a sleeper out of the two, I'd say Bellhorn. I imagine that in a couple of deeper leagues, peolple are thinking about Greg Vaughn. Coors is Coors, it can't be explained .. just as many failures as success'
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Postby Guest » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:24 am

HOOTIE wrote:It didnt do much for Jose Hernandez. Or Brent Mayne, Jeff Cirillo, Neifi Perez, Mike Lansing, Jose Ortiz.


It didn't do much for Jeff Cirillo or Brent Mayne? :-? Yeah, ok buddy.

In his only full season with Colorado he posted 111 runs (career high), 195 hits, 53 doubles (career high), 115 RBI (career high), .326 AVG (tied career high).

The 2nd season with Colorado he put up great numbers as well, despite only playing 138 games.

Brent Mayne had career highs in hits (101), tied home runs (6), RBI (64), walks (47), and AVG (.301)....He hit .331 in 49 games with Colorado the following year.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:23 pm

Anonymous wrote:
It didn't do much for Jeff Cirillo or Brent Mayne? :-? Yeah, ok buddy.

In his only full season with Colorado he posted 111 runs (career high), 195 hits, 53 doubles (career high), 115 RBI (career high), .326 AVG (tied career high).

The 2nd season with Colorado he put up great numbers as well, despite only playing 138 games.


No, it didnt really help Jeff, he merely maintained his numbers from Milwaukee. Jeff hit 326 and 313 in Coors. He previously had hit 325/321/326 before that. So he never hit higher in Coors then he had before. He hit 11 and 17 hrs in Coors. He had hit 15 twice before. He increased his hr high by 2, but it wasnt his best slygging year, 96 was. He never posted a 400 oba in Coors, he did it twice in Milwaukee. He also didnt slug 500 in Coors, he did once in Milwaukee. If we take his best Coors year 00, 869 ops, and compare it to his best Milwaukee ops in 96, 895. He did have his best runs/rbis in 00 at Coors, but both those stats are team dependent. Heres Jeffs OPS+ numbers at Coors, which reflects OPS compared to league average, adjusted for parks.

Coors year OPS+
00 96
01 98

Milwaukee 95 105
96 120
97 106
98 122
99 118

He had 5 seasons in Milwaukee better. I stick by my previous statement. Coors did not help Cirillo.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:45 pm

Anonymous wrote:
It didn't do much for Jeff Cirillo or Brent Mayne? :-? Yeah, ok buddy.
Brent Mayne had career highs in hits (101), tied home runs (6), RBI (64), walks (47), and AVG (.301)....He hit .331 in 49 games with Colorado the following year.


Mayne had his high in hits (101), because he had his high in abs 335. He hit 301 that year in Coors, but he also hit 301 in SF the year before. Which do you think is harder? 301 in Candlestick or Coors?You say he tied his career high in hrs with 6. He hit 6 in Oakland in 97, in 256 abs. It took him 335 Coors abs to match it. The rbis are team dependent. Rockies scored 923 runs that year 2nd in bb.

Maynes 2 years in Coors produced ops+ of 81 and 83. Mayne beat those numbers 4 times.

96 90 ops+
97 97
98 94
99 115 his best year by far in SF
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