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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:43 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Amazinz wrote:As far as Gordon I could take it or leave it. It's not that unrealistic. The Yanks are in contract hell and in no position to get into a bidding war with the Mets. As far as which team is more attractive to play for, I don't think the line is all that clear anymore.


No position to get into a bidding war? You're joking right? The Yankees cleared ALOT of money this offseason and have yet to spend it. It is true that they are trying to be conservative and cut payroll, but to say that they are in no position to spend is completely faulty. How exactly are they in contract hell? The Yankees could lock up Gordon right now, but that probably isn't the smartest thing to do.

If Gordon is going to set-up anywhere next year, it'll be with the Yankees. I believe he's going to close in Philly, however.

No. I am not joking. The Yankees did not clear that much payroll.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:49 pm

They cleared $43.75 million from Bernie Williams, Kevin Brown, Hideki Matsui, Tom Gordon and Ruben Sierra. They then paid $13 million back to Matsui.

Last I checked, $30 million is a significant amount of money, especially for the Yankees, who aren't shy about spending, no matter what their current payroll is. The Yankees could easily bid with the Mets, but I hope they choose not to. Gordon simply isn't worth it unless they can get him for 2 years, which isn't likely if he's involved in a bidding war.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:00 pm

Well if that is the case then why didn't the Yankees sign BJ Ryan to setup? If the Yankees were willing to pay Ryan closer money even though he would setup for a year or two he would have signed with them. The Yankees have more money than any team in baseball but they are not in the best financial situation right now. Believe it or not even the Yankees have a ceiling. If the Mets want Gordon to setup they will be willing to overpay him because they know full well that teams are considering him as a closing option. This is why I doubt the rumor in the first place. But if it is true the Yankees are not going to have the money to counter the offer. If they would, why not stop him from heading to Philly?
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:06 pm

Amazinz wrote:Well if that is the case then why didn't the Yankees sign BJ Ryan to setup? If the Yankees were willing to pay Ryan closer money even though he would setup for a year or two he would have signed with them. The Yankees have more money than any team in baseball but they are not in the best financial situation right now. Believe it or not even the Yankees have a ceiling. If the Mets want Gordon to setup they will be willing to overpay him because they know full well that teams are considering him as a closing option. This is why I doubt the rumor in the first place. But if it is true the Yankees are not going to have the money to counter the offer. If they would, why not stop him from heading to Philly?


Because BJ Ryan had zero interest in being a setup man. Cashman was on WFAN today and said they got no response from him in regards to being Mariano's setup man. Believe me, if the Yankees could have gotten Ryan, they would have. Cashman admitted as much.

I understand that the Yankees aren't in the greatest financial position and they do have a ceiling, but you're talking about a team who just spend over $200 million last year, and that has been knocked down by around $30 mill. The Yankees can spend money easily, they just have not seen any benefit to throwing money at people like Damon or Burnett (things they've done in the past and been burned for). I appreciate the patience they are showing and hope they keep it up.

But to say that they CANNOT keep up with the Mets in a bidding war? Come on. They have the resources, it's just a matter of whether it's smart baseball. Luckily for Yankee fans, they seem to be making smart moves thus far, things that haven't done in a long, long time.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:08 pm

Amazinz wrote:Well if that is the case then why didn't the Yankees sign BJ Ryan to setup? If the Yankees were willing to pay Ryan closer money even though he would setup for a year or two he would have signed with them. The Yankees have more money than any team in baseball but they are not in the best financial situation right now. Believe it or not even the Yankees have a ceiling. If the Mets want Gordon to setup they will be willing to overpay him because they know full well that teams are considering him as a closing option. This is why I doubt the rumor in the first place. But if it is true the Yankees are not going to have the money to counter the offer. If they would, why not stop him from heading to Philly?


The Yankees have the money to counter the offer. They just don't want to be suckered into giving out another ridiculous deal. To compete with Philly, who offers a closer gig, they'd likely have to go 3 years. The Yankees don't want to do that with a 38 year old who has proven he melts like ice cream in the postseason, and for good reason.
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Postby BritSox » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:10 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:They cleared $43.75 million from Bernie Williams, Kevin Brown, Hideki Matsui, Tom Gordon and Ruben Sierra. They then paid $13 million back to Matsui.

Last I checked, $30 million is a significant amount of money, especially for the Yankees, who aren't shy about spending, no matter what their current payroll is. The Yankees could easily bid with the Mets, but I hope they choose not to. Gordon simply isn't worth it unless they can get him for 2 years, which isn't likely if he's involved in a bidding war.


Repeat after me. The contracts of ARod, Jeter and Giambi are backloaded.

Therefore, though they have cleared a fair bit of payroll, it isn't quite $30m worth.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:12 pm

Well I'm not trying to make this into a pissing match, you are. With all things being equal the Yankees can no doubt spend more than the Mets or any other team. Happy? But all things are not equal. Look at the Mets payroll at < $100M. Consider the Yankees payroll which is still > $200M.

Also, don't believe everything Cashman says (or any other GM for that matter). What Ryan said to the Yankees in so many words is if you pay me I will come. I will come setup for you if you pay me as a closer. They wouldn't do it. I'm not saying that's a mistake either just the current situation.
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Postby dyuen87 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:13 pm

Bronx happens to be right for a change. ;-7 It's not that the Yankees didnt offer as much money as the Jays, they probably offered more, but the fact still remained that Ryan wanted to close and he wasn't going to do that here. Now for Gordon, it's not a matter of the size of the contract, but the length. Cashman dead out refuses to give Gordon the 3rd year because right now it makes no sense. he's been spotty in the playoffs and he's 38, which will make him 41 when he finishes. Now if Minaya wants to have a very old team in two years, in order to win now, that's his business. Cashman knows first hand the problems an old team can have (he's living it right now :-o ) and wants to get out of it. IMO, gordon wants to close and it looks like the Phillies have the job open for him.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:14 pm

BritSox wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:They cleared $43.75 million from Bernie Williams, Kevin Brown, Hideki Matsui, Tom Gordon and Ruben Sierra. They then paid $13 million back to Matsui.

Last I checked, $30 million is a significant amount of money, especially for the Yankees, who aren't shy about spending, no matter what their current payroll is. The Yankees could easily bid with the Mets, but I hope they choose not to. Gordon simply isn't worth it unless they can get him for 2 years, which isn't likely if he's involved in a bidding war.


Repeat after me. The contracts of ARod, Jeter and Giambi are backloaded.

Therefore, though they have cleared a fair bit of payroll, it isn't quite $30m worth.


Fair point, although A-Rod's doesn't increase next year and Jeter's only increases by $1 million.

But let's be honest, it's still the Yankees. You honestly believe that they cannot compete with the Mets (who just absorbed a ridiculous Delgado contract and threw $40 million at Wagner, and still have yet to address their catching position) in a bidding war for Tom Gordon (who likely won't receive a contract higher than $8 million per? I'm not buying it.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:18 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:You honestly believe that they cannot compete with the Mets (who just absorbed a ridiculous Delgado contract and threw $40 million at Wagner, and still have yet to address their catching position) in a bidding war for Tom Gordon (who likely won't receive a contract higher than $8 million per? I'm not buying it.

In light of your sensitivity bidding war was a bad choice of words. Let me rephrase: If the Mets interest is real, I do not see the Yankees being willing to spend the type of money that the Mets will.
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