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Re: Bobby Abreu

Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:29 pm

clevername wrote:I've been hearing that one as well. I don't know how much sense it makes for the Cards, though. They add payroll and lose 40% of their rotation. Even if they then go and get Burnett, their payroll is significantly higher and they're still short a 5th starter (though, I suppose Wainwright or Thompson could slip in there in a pinch).

The thought of Eck, Abreu, Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds makes me smile, though.

B-)


i am guessing if they did it there would be enough cash coming their way to make it palatable. still, they would need some pitchers. if there is any truth to it, its probably contingent on the cards signing burnett or millwood or someone like that. if they have carp, mulder, burnett and soup i can live with a reclamation project at the #5 (although it would be a whole lot better if they could sub in lambert and/or wainwright instead of reyes). if they can keep reyes, and the owners let the payroll go up to around $100, there is room for burnett, abreu, and maybe dotel depending on how cheap they want to go on the bench.
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Re: The Truth Hurts

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:31 pm

SonsofSlam04 wrote:Just what the Yankees need - more hitting.. what a joke!!!
Typical Yankees buying another ALL STAR and giving their fans a false sense of hope that they want to build a winner - when in reality George just cares about filling seats!!!

Perhaps you should get a clue BUDDY
"I said getting Abreu is just what the Yankees need" - Like you said he fills none of their needs... He doesnt play CF, he cant setup for Mariano, he cant lead off.
As for the Yankees constantly buying ALL STARS .. what about this is untrue? ... Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Carl Pavano, Jared Wright, Jason Giambi, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, H Matsui... its true they collect ALL STARS...
As for caring more about filling seats than building a winner, its something you Yankee fans need to face a real possibility. How else do you explain just buying ALL STARS with a complete disregard for team chemistry? No one can be that dumb, not even George!


I know he doesn't fill any of their needs. You're missing the point. You're acting as if the Yankees are making this deal strictly to get Bobby Abreu. You're wrong. Dumping salary is as big, or probably bigger reason for this deal. That would be the reason. Not to get another superstar. To dump a huge contract for an old, declining catcher...and to get a overrated pitcher's monster contract off the books.

When did I say the Yankees never bought an all-star? All I said was that they aren't buying an all-star in this instance. Again, doing this trade would be as much for dumping salary as it would for getting Abreu. They don't need Abreu. If they weren't dumping salary, this would be a stupid deal.

The fact that they would save money in this trade effectively eliminates any argument that says they are "buying" another superstar.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:34 pm

Need or no need when you can get a player like Abreu, move Posada who is passed his prime and carries a bloated contract and move Pavano who just appeared overwhelmed in NY it's a good trade IMO.
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Trading bloated contracts

Postby SonsofSlam04 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:46 pm

If the Yankees are so eager to move Pavano, why didnt attempt tp trade him to the Tigers - the Tigers came asking about Pavano and were offering a combination of Nick Logan CF and another player - I believe the lefthanded 1st baseman that was sent down last year. Yankees turned this down almost immediately without exploring it first.
As for moving Posada, lets say they do move him, then they have to go and overpay another catcher - their options: B Molina, C Hernandez, Mike Lieberthal??? Are these that much better options than Posada???

The Dodgers can afford a large contract, they are looking for pitching and always have a good farm system. Pavano would be a good fit for them.... Has there been any diaglogue between these two teams?
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Re: Trading bloated contracts

Postby TheYanks04 » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:17 am

SonsofSlam04 wrote:If the Yankees are so eager to move Pavano, why didnt attempt tp trade him to the Tigers - the Tigers came asking about Pavano and were offering a combination of Nick Logan CF and another player - I believe the lefthanded 1st baseman that was sent down last year. Yankees turned this down almost immediately without exploring it first.
As for moving Posada, lets say they do move him, then they have to go and overpay another catcher - their options: B Molina, C Hernandez, Mike Lieberthal??? Are these that much better options than Posada???

The Dodgers can afford a large contract, they are looking for pitching and always have a good farm system. Pavano would be a good fit for them.... Has there been any diaglogue between these two teams?


Because I am sure Detroit was not going to absorb enough money from Pavano's contract and Logan is not all that great.

And as to Posada, he is on the Piazza track to worthlessness in a few years. He has never been good defensively. Why would you want to pay him 10-12 M when you could sign a younger, cheaper and better player in Molina or Hernandez.
Last edited by TheYanks04 on Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trading bloated contracts

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:19 am

TheYanks04 wrote:
SonsofSlam04 wrote:If the Yankees are so eager to move Pavano, why didnt attempt tp trade him to the Tigers - the Tigers came asking about Pavano and were offering a combination of Nick Logan CF and another player - I believe the lefthanded 1st baseman that was sent down last year. Yankees turned this down almost immediately without exploring it first.
As for moving Posada, lets say they do move him, then they have to go and overpay another catcher - their options: B Molina, C Hernandez, Mike Lieberthal??? Are these that much better options than Posada???

The Dodgers can afford a large contract, they are looking for pitching and always have a good farm system. Pavano would be a good fit for them.... Has there been any diaglogue between these two teams?


Because I am sure Detroit was not going to absorb enough money from Pavano's contract and Logan is not all that great.

And as to Posada, he is on the Piazza track to worthlessness in a few years. He has never been good defensively. Why would you want to pay him 10-12 M when you could sign a younger, cheaper and better player in Molina or Hernandez.


Exactly. I highly doubt Detroit was going to eat Pavano's entire contract. Logan is not the long-term solution to their problems, so why trade Pavano for him, and eat contract?

The Posada point was 100% correct as well. Not to mention he is owed $12 million in 2007 if he starts something like 80 games at catcher this year. That's an insane amount of money for an aging catcher whose skills have already been visibly declining.
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Postby Music2004Man » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:23 am

People were asking why the Phils would want to trade Abreu so I'm going to try to help out. I'm a Phils fan so I've been hearing a lot of talk about it for the last year or so.

Abreu is the best "player" on the team (if you look solely at the stats). As such he has the highest trade value on the team right now and he also has the highest salary. What the Phils see right now is that their team isn't constructed correctly. They have way too many SO's in the lineup, not enough left/right and a lot of holes to fill (SP, C, 3b, MR, CL). Abreu has always been a numbers guy with a big ego (he once had someone mow 30/30 into his yard). He gets all of his HR's early in the game when it doesn't matter as much. If you look at his average from the 7th inning on he hits about 230. This is the type of player who is steady and puts up numbers but doesn't always contribute to the well-being of the team. By dropping his salary the Phils will also be able to extend Howard and Utley over the next couple of years.

As far as the trade rumors that are being floated out there I can see the Yanks being a match because Duncan is an intriguing prospect at a position where the Phils need help. I can't see them taking on the contracts of Posada and Pavano because neither one of them truly fits a need. Posada is as old as Lieby and Pavano is not the #1 starter that the Phils covet. (We have 4-5 starters who are 2nd-3rd starter material). As far as the Cards rumors, they kind of fit as well because Reyes is a good SP prospect and Marquis is supposed to be pretty good (though he hasn't lived up to his potential yet). I don't see this package being big enough to land Abreu.
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Postby BritSox » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:42 am

Music2004Man wrote: Abreu has always been a numbers guy with a big ego (he once had someone mow 30/30 into his yard). He gets all of his HR's early in the game when it doesn't matter as much.


Insert your own lazy Yankees/Arod joke here. :-D
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Postby wrveres » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:43 am

Music2004Man wrote:People were asking why the Phils would want to trade Abreu so I'm going to try to help out. I'm a Phils fan so I've been hearing a lot of talk about it for the last year or so.

Abreu is the best "player" on the team (if you look solely at the stats). As such he has the highest trade value on the team right now and he also has the highest salary. What the Phils see right now is that their team isn't constructed correctly. They have way too many SO's in the lineup, not enough left/right and a lot of holes to fill (SP, C, 3b, MR, CL). Abreu has always been a numbers guy with a big ego (he once had someone mow 30/30 into his yard). He gets all of his HR's early in the game when it doesn't matter as much. If you look at his average from the 7th inning on he hits about 230. This is the type of player who is steady and puts up numbers but doesn't always contribute to the well-being of the team. By dropping his salary the Phils will also be


IMO, those are horrible reasons ... sry

I am sure those homeruns in the first few innings are just as important the homeruns late in the game. And I have never heard anything negative about him from the clubhouse, and I read the Philly paper almost daily.

As for his late inning BA, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that opposing managers avoid his bat late and he gets a steady diet of picthes off the plate
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Postby Music2004Man » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:12 am

wrveres wrote:
Music2004Man wrote:People were asking why the Phils would want to trade Abreu so I'm going to try to help out. I'm a Phils fan so I've been hearing a lot of talk about it for the last year or so.

Abreu is the best "player" on the team (if you look solely at the stats). As such he has the highest trade value on the team right now and he also has the highest salary. What the Phils see right now is that their team isn't constructed correctly. They have way too many SO's in the lineup, not enough left/right and a lot of holes to fill (SP, C, 3b, MR, CL). Abreu has always been a numbers guy with a big ego (he once had someone mow 30/30 into his yard). He gets all of his HR's early in the game when it doesn't matter as much. If you look at his average from the 7th inning on he hits about 230. This is the type of player who is steady and puts up numbers but doesn't always contribute to the well-being of the team. By dropping his salary the Phils will also be


IMO, those are horrible reasons ... sry

I am sure those homeruns in the first few innings are just as important the homeruns late in the game. And I have never heard anything negative about him from the clubhouse, and I read the Philly paper almost daily.

As for his late inning BA, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that opposing managers avoid his bat late and he gets a steady diet of picthes off the plate


Two things to say.....
1. First, I disagree that homers hit early in the game are as important as homers hit late in the game. A homer that puts you up 1-0 in the bottom of the first and a solo homer that is hit in the bottom of the ninth to win 4-3 both untie the score. Therefore they serve the same function but because one was hit in the ninth it wins the game for you. By hitting a homer in the first there are still many chances for the other team to change the outcome of the game.

2. On the other hand I would like to take back something that I posted the first time. I had heard from post game shows, and the radio that Abreu didn't hit well late in games. It seems that I didn't get very good information here or people were upset about a single game. When I looked up his numbers I found that Abreu did in fact hit well when the game was close and late.

.298/.422/.571, HR-6 RBI-14

I apologize for my mistake on this one. I'll back it up with facts before posting next time. I still think though that the Phils want to get rid of Abreu because he has a lot of value right now and they still have plenty of holes to fill.
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