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Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:33 pm

Amazinz wrote:This story is getting blown out of proportion. The NFL did not publicly admit anything. This is the whole quote the story is based. I'd like to see one from an NFL official if you know of it:

"I had a conversation with the league, and there were mistakes that were made, which we felt at the time," said Seattle coach Mike Holmgren.

Secondly, why would the NFL admit to blowing the Toomer call? I have the game saved and have watched the replay of both plays more than a few times. There is absolutely no doubt that both of Toomer's feet landed in the endzone. None. There was extreme pass interference on the play as well that was missed.

The validity of the Shockey catch is based on unclear "catch" rules that nobody fully understands. It definitely was a catch, it's just was it a catch long enough? So I can see them saying this was a blown call but the call (if it was blown) wasn't bad enough to apologize for.


Ok, so we have a major news organization reporting that Holmgren got word from the NFL that they blew the calls. If that's not true, you're saying the NFL wouldn't tell FOX Sports to pull the story? Think again. The sole fact that the NFL is silent about this report speaks volumes to its validity. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And I somewhat agree with you about Toomer's catch. Although I don't think it was clear that his right foot landed in the end zone rather than on his other foot, I don't think there was enough evidence to overturn the call on the field. I also don't think there would have been enough evidence to overturn it if it had originally been called a non-catch.

Shockey's TD, however, was most certainly not a catch. You have to have control of the ball and get both feet down, which never happened. I don't understand how the rules are that hard to understand. You can have one foot (or no feet) down if you have control of the ball and get pushed out of bounds. But that never happened. He had the ball, got one foot down in the middle of the end zone, then got his bell rung and didn't hold onto the ball. NO CATCH. It's not that difficult of a concept.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:38 pm

The NFL pulled the story from there website minutes after CBS SportsLine posted it.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:40 pm

Amazinz wrote:The NFL pulled the story from there website minutes after CBS SportsLine posted it.


It's still up on NFL.com.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/SEA/9067523
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:42 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:Shockey's TD, however, was most certainly not a catch. You have to have control of the ball and get both feet down, which never happened. I don't understand how the rules are that hard to understand. You can have one foot (or no feet) down if you have control of the ball and get pushed out of bounds. But that never happened.

What you are describing takes place outside of the endzone. And if this had been a "catch" in the green you would be absolutely correct. But the rules don't apply the same way in the end zone because you do not have to make a football move in the endzone. The rule is something like 2 seconds and that's exactly what was in question, whether or not Shockey had held the ball long enough prior to getting hit.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:45 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Amazinz wrote:The NFL pulled the story from there website minutes after CBS SportsLine posted it.


It's still up on NFL.com.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/SEA/9067523

Sorry. Got some bad info on the Giants fan forum.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:55 pm

Amazinz wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:Shockey's TD, however, was most certainly not a catch. You have to have control of the ball and get both feet down, which never happened. I don't understand how the rules are that hard to understand. You can have one foot (or no feet) down if you have control of the ball and get pushed out of bounds. But that never happened.

What you are describing takes place outside of the endzone. And if this had been a "catch" in the green you would be absolutely correct. But the rules don't apply the same way in the end zone because you do not have to make a football move in the endzone. The rule is something like 2 seconds and that's exactly what was in question, whether or not Shockey had held the ball long enough prior to getting hit.


You still have to have both feet down in the end zone unless you're pushed out.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:01 pm

Got it. You're saying the feet never touched. Misread it.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:05 pm

Amazinz wrote:Got it. You're saying the feet never touched. Misread it.


Yup. I don't think he ever got his second foot down. It appeared to me like he had one foot down and the ball and then got levelled before his second foot down.

In any case, the Seahawks got manhandled by the Giants (and that is definitely scary), but still somehow managed to win the game (which is great). You're going to have days like that and to be able to win even when it happens is a good sign.
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Postby rob0417 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:12 pm

For me it was really hard to tell if he got the second foot down. some angles it looked like he did and others, it didn't. I certainly didnt' see irresputable evidence that he did or didn't get the second foot down. As for the Toomer play he definitly got both feet in. Great catch
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:49 pm

Hate to say I told you so but I will. :-D

The NFL today issued a statement refuting a report out of Seattle that the league office had informed Seahawks head coach Mike Holmgren that Nemmers’ crew had incorrectly called the Giants’ two touchdowns in Sunday’s game. According to the report, the league said touchdowns by Jeremy Shockey and Amani Toomer shouldn’t have been ruled completions.

“The report that the NFL informed the Seahawks of officiating mistakes on two Giants touchdown receptions is inaccurate,” NFL Vice President of Public relations Greg Aiello said. “Our officiating department never discussed with the Seahawks the Amani Toomer touchdown reception, which was properly called. The Jeremy Shockey touchdown catch at the end of the first half was not overturned, because the referee determined that there was insufficient visual evidence to reverse the call.”


http://www.giants.com/news/eisen/story. ... y_id=11705

Also being reported on WFAN and 1050 ESPN radio in NY.
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