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Postby foulballstrike3 » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:42 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:Are the Orioles out of the running for Burnett?

I thought that they had a very good shot at landing him.


I've started a couple of posts regarding the Orioles and there have been a couple of others as well (who knew the O's were so popular? Haha). I just had to throw that out there so I don't sound so redundant, but Burnett's wife is from the Baltimore area (Bowie, I believe). She would love to come back (Bowie is just as close to DC, and I believe the Nats had some talks with him as well).

With that said, the O's aren't appealed by the # of years Burnett is asking for or the asking price for that matter. Who knows though with the Orioles, they might just be reporting that. I thought all along that wherever BJ Ryan went would help dictate to some degree where Burnett might land. The Jays just "threw away" a boatload of cash (they were thought to be the front runner) and the Indians didn't get Ryan so now they have money to resign Millwood (whom the O's are also interested in). I dunno, I would definitely not be disappointed by the O's not signing Burnett. There is a lot of talk about Mazzone (no he's not the second coming) and I think Burnett could greatly benefit from him as well. Burnett has progressed with his control since his days of the "walk 7" No-no, but he's is erratic at best. I was at a game in Philly last year (scouting for the O's before the deadline, ;-) ) and he threw one pitch about 50 feet and one about 70. $10 mil a year for 5 years is quite a bit for the O's, especially with the pitchers hitting the market next year (supposing that their respective teams don't resign them).

The free agency class is much stronger for next year, and the O's have some key players to resign (Mora for starters!) We'll have to see soon what kind of role they play in the market this year. So far, there obviously hasn't been anything of note.

I just wish that the O's weren't in the same division as the Yanks and the Bosox. No, it's not because they are powerhouses!! It's because they come to Baltimore 3 times per year, all sellouts, and Angelos gets to line his pockets without putting a quality team on the field. Last year was the worst, the O's overachieved for the first half giving "Baltimorons" a false sense of hope increasing ticket sales. Angelos got his money, and the O's are in the same position they're always in, playing catch up.
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Postby Comrade Antelope » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:28 pm

Phatferd wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
I didn't intend for my post to be directed towards you. You have a level head and make the most sense.

It was directed at the genius who I would destroy in a league if he had that staff.


That would be me, and I didnt say I would want that staff in a fantasy league. I said (implied) your line of thinking likely results in you getting the crap kicked out of you because you seem to discount any pitcher who doesnt put up Santana-like #s and you ignore them until they do...which would be much too late in the leagues I play in. The guys who see Cabrera's and Bedard's potential and pick them up while you are bidding on/drafting some has-been based on 2002 performance will empty your wallet and make you look foolish. Im not trying to change your mind, and Im not saying you are a dimwit or anything, just a bad Fantasy baseball manager. And I love being in leagues with guys who think like you. Unfortunatley, you are a dying breed because of good forums like this one...
"...I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue..."
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Postby Phatferd » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:38 pm

Comrade Antelope wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
I didn't intend for my post to be directed towards you. You have a level head and make the most sense.

It was directed at the genius who I would destroy in a league if he had that staff.


That would be me, and I didnt say I would want that staff in a fantasy league. I said (implied) your line of thinking likely results in you getting the crap kicked out of you because you seem to discount any pitcher who doesnt put up Santana-like #s and you ignore them until they do...which would be much too late in the leagues I play in. The guys who see Cabrera's and Bedard's potential and pick them up while you are bidding on/drafting some has-been based on 2002 performance will empty your wallet and make you look foolish. Im not trying to change your mind, and Im not saying you are a dimwit or anything, just a bad Fantasy baseball manager. And I love being in leagues with guys who think like you. Unfortunatley, you are a dying breed because of good forums like this one...


Are you high?

I won my league, which was a winner's league.

Where did I say pitchers with Santan like numbers are only good? You said this staff is very good, which they are not. Fantasy and real thing are 2 totally different things anyways.

How would Bedard and Cabrerra help my fantasy team? They would hurt it in a bad way.

If I overpay for guys like this in a fantasy league like you, I would certainly lose, which are the type of people I love to play with.

You can draft Millwood in the first 9 rounds, I'll take Bonderman and Kelvim Escobar and the likes over Millwood. I'll even take the Freddy Garcia's and Jeff Weavers over Cabrerra.
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Postby Jack-In-A-Box » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:28 pm

I'm sure the O's have a good shot at Millwood as I'm sure he'd love to reunite with Mazzone. But to say he's a no.1?? Uh... NO. Ask Philly. Ask the Braves. He had one real good year- his last year- with the Braves and then he bolts for more $$. Philly got burned. Then he signs with Cle for 1 yr and has a good year and now someone is going to pay him off again and they'll get burned. Can you say CONTRACT YEAR PLAYER? Sign him to one and done deals for the rest of his career and I'll respect him more. But Millwood isn't going to be a savior for the O's no matter what anyone says.
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Postby RynMan » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:46 pm

zhutou wrote:cabrera will be a beast next year. mazzone is just too good.


Might wanna check his stats right now in the hispanic league he is playing in...
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Postby RynMan » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:48 pm

Don't expect to sign Byrd for less than 7 mil per year now that Billy signed Loaiza for that much.
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Postby Morrison8312 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:18 pm

Maybe this isn't a good comparison but here's Bonderman's #'s

SEASON TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
2003 Detroit Tigers 6 19 5.56 33 28 0 0 0 0 162.0 193 118 100 23 4 58 108
2004 Detroit Tigers 11 13 4.89 33 32 2 2 0 0 184.0 168 101 100 24 10 73 168
2005 Detroit Tigers 14 13 4.57 29 29 4 0 0 0 189.0 199 101 96 21 4 57 145


And here's Cabrera's #'s which were already posted:

SEASON TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
2004 Baltimore Orioles 12 8 5.00 28 27 1 1 1 1 147.2 145 85 82 14 2 89 76
2005 Baltimore Orioles 10 13 4.52 29 29 0 0 0 0 161.1 144 92 81 14 11 87 157


Bondy's numbers would of been better if he was healthy last season but he improved every season. Who says Cabrera can't do the same? I'll admit, I wouldn't draft him until late but he is a young pitcher to watch out for. Having Mazzone as your pitching coach doesn't hurt either ;-D
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Postby RynMan » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:27 pm

Cabrera is an interesting case. On the one hand you have a guy who has electric stuff, who started throwing strikes in 05, and consequently had improved success. On the other hand in 05, he was terrible on the road, was EXTREMELY inconsistant, and could not get lefties out.

So I'm a little mixed on him for 05. I think he could be the 2004 version of Brett Myers.
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Postby Halo Homers » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:50 pm

Phatferd wrote:
Halo Homers wrote:________________________________________________________

I think you're undervaluing how much Bedard and Cabrera could improve, especiallly with Leo Mazzone as a pitching coach. Carbrera has awesome stuff that just needs to be harnassed. As another post said, Bedard has shown consistent improvement. If he continue to improve at the same rate as last year, he'll be down to a 3.50 ERA in 2006. The Orioles had a nasty collaspe in the second half which was caused by an inexperienced pitching staff, plus some off field stuff that won't be there next year.

I think they are a real sleeper in 2006. The inexperienced pitching staff has a year experience, and I don't think they'll collaspe like last year.

More important than Millwood is a replacement to Ryan, and a shoring up of middle relief. I think middle relief really did them in last year. They could'nt get to Ryan. They need a reliable bridge to whomever the closer is going to be.


Could and if is not will be good.

If this were the case we wouldn't even draft players after the 10th round because everyone would pan out and there would be no need for any more rounds because teams would be filled.

Bedard has shown improvement every year? He's pitched 2 years and showed to still have a 4 ERA.

Cabrera don't even kid with me. He is around a 5 ERA and has posted one to boot. You know how many pitchers have "stuff" but can't do anything with it.

Get back to me when it happens and I will say I was wrong, but you guy's are basing way too much on hypothetical.


_______________________________________________________

Every year, there is at least one team and a handful of players that have breakout years. I think all the ingredients are there for it to be either Bedard or Cabrera or both. 1) Both had a extended period in 05 (More Than 3 Months) were they pitched great ball (Especially Bedard) before fading 2) Both young pitchers who could improve dramatically in one season 3) A pitching coach who can make it happen.

I think these two have to be on high on the radar as breakout candidates, and if the Orioles fix their bullpen they are likely candidates to be the surprise year in 06.

Lets check back at the All-Star break and see.

I think Cabrera is one of those pitchers you take l
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Postby mikekim2121 » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:16 am

The offer the O's gave to Byrd seems very reasonable. I would take that over what Millwood's going to be making on the market. I do agree Millwood is better but I think Millwood's going to be pretty overpriced.
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