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Quick Top 10 at 3B??

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Postby Comrade Antelope » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:06 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:I can't understand how Mora does not make a Top Ten. He's out produced each of the past two years. He's gotta rank higher than Blalock and Beltre, and has similar production, without the injury history of Chavez or Glaus. I'd make it:

ARod
Miggy
Wright
Rolen
Chavez
Mora
ARam
Blalock
Figgins
Ensberg


I agree with the Mora statement, and Chavez is way overrated. He hasnt hit 30+HR since 02, hasnt batted better than .280 since 03, has never learned to hit lefties, and is pretty inconsistent (H2H considerations). He's not crap, but I wouldnt rank him in from t of Aram, Figgins, mora, ect. Figgins was the best 3B not named Rodruigez last year according to ESPN rater for 5X5. No way he should be at the bottom of the list. I see 'em stacking up like this:

A. Rodriguez
D. Wright
M. Cabrera
C. Figgins (Ithink no. 2-4 are close and depend on your needs)
A. Ramirez
S. Rolen (depending on health could be higher or lower)
M. Mora
H. Blalock (speaking of not hitting lefties)
E. Chavez
M. Ensberg (has to do it for more than one year)

M. Ensberg
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:04 pm

Comrade Antelope wrote:
I agree with the Mora statement, and Chavez is way overrated. He hasnt hit 30+HR since 02, hasnt batted better than .280 since 03, has never learned to hit lefties, and is pretty inconsistent (H2H considerations). He's not crap, but I wouldnt rank him in from t of Aram, Figgins, mora, ect. Figgins was the best 3B not named Rodruigez last year according to ESPN rater for 5X5. No way he should be at the bottom of the list. I see 'em stacking up like this:

A. Rodriguez
D. Wright
M. Cabrera
C. Figgins (Ithink no. 2-4 are close and depend on your needs)
A. Ramirez
S. Rolen (depending on health could be higher or lower)
M. Mora
H. Blalock (speaking of not hitting lefties)
E. Chavez
M. Ensberg (has to do it for more than one year)

M. Ensberg


Figgins ranking is largely based on one category, his SBs. I'd like to see him repeat that before I jump him to the top of the list.

Chavez may be overrated, but two of the last three years, he's performed better than ARam (2003 and 2005), better than Blalock (2003 and 2005), better than Mora (2003 and 2005), and better than Ensberg (2003 and 2004). I don't see how you rate other guys ahead of him when he consistently tops their performance.
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Postby Yoda » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:51 pm

Aram is going to be underrated going into the draft it seems.
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Postby Subversive » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:26 pm

JohnR wrote:(1) Alex Rodriguez: he does it all and is still only 30 y.o.

(2) Miguel Cabrera: Oh, how I wanted to put him down lower due to the depleted FLA lineup, but I couldn't. He's THAT good. And he won't even touch 23 y.o until Spring Training.

(3) David Wright: Is it a stretch placing him this high? 2 years ago most people (myself included) didn't even have him on radar. Now, he's making a case for a bona fide Top 3 3B man. Turns 23 (5) days before Christmas btw.

(4) Eric Chavez: 28 year old slugger had a down year (by his standards). I won't be overlooking him.

(5) Aramis Ramirez: Couldn't place him any higher I don't think. But he IS a top 5 3B man, provided he's healthy.

(6) Chone Figgins: Speed is his most valuable asset, but his BA will keep him in the upper tier.

(7) Hank Blalock: Might be a little too high, but I really sense that he is going to have a HUGE breakout year one of these years. This could be the last year rgar he ranks below Chavez, Aram and Figgins for me. Just turned 25 y.o btw.

(8) Scott Rolen: Injury risk pushes him down, but if healthy, he probably deserves to be 3 or 4 spots higher hitting in that lineup.

(9) Morgan Ensberg: I'm going to put him here as I am not completely sold on his year he had. At worst, he's an excellent sleeper pick but for some reason I'd still target just about everyone else on this list before him

(10) Troy Glaus: You only wanted 10, so I chose Glaus over chipper and Beltre. Not high on Beltre unless he goes to Coors or Philly, and Chipper is on the downside I think.


3B is a very deep position. Even knowing that Mora, Koskie, Garciaparra (3B eligible in most leagues), Lowell, Cantu and boone are very serviceable (when healthy), though Lowell will be interesting to see where some people place him next spring. Nomar doesn't make my list only because most of his value to me is at SS (no one will draft him as a 3B man unless they HAVE to), and plus hes quite the injury risk. Let's also not forget McPhereson and Encarnacion will be starting next year, and Marte may not be far off.


I agree with most of this list, but I stick Beltre in there at #10 instead of Glaus. Beltre is still very young, and many players take a year to adjust to a new league. I look for a big bounce back year from him next season. Not quite as good as his previous year, but I'm thinking .295 - 40 - 110. Seattle will be better and he's already proven he can do it in a pitchers park.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:46 pm

1)Alex Rodriguez-The undisputed
2)Miguel Cabrera-with his talent, he's still a first round pick even if he hits in the Royals' lineup
3)Eric Chavez-He's had a down year and he'll rebound nicely next year
4)David Wright-Great lineup around him, I'm not sold on him to be top 3 because: 1)Pitcher's Park 2)Sophomore slump 3)I don't know, Mets always seem to find a way to lose 4)he's not proven
5)Aramis Ramirez-He's a top 5 3B, end of discussion
6)Chone Figgins-The plus:versitility, the speed, good lineup, good BA. Not as much power compare to the top 5
7)Scott Rolen-still a great hitter in an aging but still great lineup, injury risk
8)Hank Blalock-Too much difference in home-away Slugging Pct. to make me comfortable with him. But as long as he's not traded, he will give you these power numbers. And he's still developing.
9)Troy Glaus-Big Slugger in a pitcher's park and a not-so-great lineup. Injury risk.
10)Morgan Ensberg-I am not sold on him and would personally wait for Mora, but with the year he's had, you gotta put him in top 10
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:06 pm

Yoda wrote:Aram is going to be underrated going into the draft it seems.


Not if you make sure to consider SBs and injury history in the mix.

ARam's supporters always forget that SBs are extremely valuable (twice as valuable as dingers in most leagues). The 5-10 SB deficit that he has with guys like Mora or Chavez is equivalent to a difference of 10-20 in HRs. Basically, there's little difference between #2-9 in these rankings in HR or RBI+Runs. So, in a 5x5 it comes down to BA and SBs. ARam digs a HUGE hole for himself with his inability to steal and his BA average usually isn't enough.

You couple that with his time lost to injury. Hammy in 2004 cost him 17 games. Quad last year cost him 39. Charging the mound in 2002 cost him 20. Best guess is he misses 10-15 games in a year.

So, if you get 155+ games like 2001 or 2004, he's top 5. If he has a season like 2003 or 2005, he's in the second 5.

And if he has a season like 2002, he's toast.
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