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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:58 pm

Closers are overrated. The most overrated position. Chicago just won with a rookie (Jenks), who had a 75% rate. In 04, Boston won with Foulke, who was not in the top 20 in save %.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:05 am

I:

a. did not come out and call for a radicle shift in baseball philosophy to the point where closers should be abolished because medicore MRs can step up just as easily in the 9th inning (hence MR Embree).

b. do not get paid millions to get things right.


If Joe Kerrigan calls for Pedro to be a closer, he is dubbed a moron.

If Bill James calls for Urbina to walk because the Sox can get by with guys like Embree because of some BS stat analysis he runs on his PC, he is a moron.

If a noted fantasy expert starts having 10 team pre-season drafts all with himself in order to see how the draft will likely go, he is an idiot.

If another noted fantasy expert does a Keeper league rating based on a 10 year horizon and as such would rather have Ronnie Belliard over Jeff Kent and somehow thinks he can predict 10 years into the future, guess what, he is an idiot too.


We all make mistakes...no one is perfect. But there are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES.
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Postby DK » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:20 am

TheYanks04 wrote:I:

a. did not come out and call for a radicle shift in baseball philosophy to the point where closers should be abolished because medicore MRs can step up just as easily in the 9th inning (hence MR Embree).

b. do not get paid millions to get things right.


See, you're making a different point. With a three-run lead in the ninth you don't need your best reliever. You're going to win 99% of the time even with Shingo Takatsu (or some really bad reliever) on the mound. I don't think he ever said that you should put a mediocre reliever in the ninth inning with a one-run lead.


TheYanks04 wrote:If Joe Kerrigan calls for Pedro to be a closer, he is dubbed a moron.

If Bill James calls for Urbina to walk because the Sox can get by with guys like Embree because of some BS stat analysis he runs on his PC, he is a moron.


The first part is irrelevant. The second part is relevant but again I've never heard James say Embree was supposed to be the closer. I know the Sox FO said it but James isn't the only member of that office.

Sure, he's paid a good amount of money. You know what the sweetest way to make good on the money you're paid? Help win a championship.

TheYanks04 wrote:If a noted fantasy expert starts having 10 team pre-season drafts all with himself in order to see how the draft will likely go, he is an idiot.

If another noted fantasy expert does a Keeper league rating based on a 10 year horizon and as such would rather have Ronnie Belliard over Jeff Kent and somehow thinks he can predict 10 years into the future, guess what, he is an idiot too.


This is irrelevant too. What are you talking about?


TheYanks04 wrote:We all make mistakes...no one is perfect. But there are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES.


How about helping his team with his analysis to winning its first title in 86 years? I don't think I'd call that a mistake.
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Postby Tavish » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:27 am

TheYanks04 wrote:If Bill James calls for Urbina to walk because the Sox can get by with guys like Embree because of some BS stat analysis he runs on his PC, he is a moron.


So the Red Sox would be better off with Urbina closing for $5 million dollars, than using the $5 million dollars the way they did (signing Mueller, Millar, and Ortiz)? I bet the morons in Boston would much rather have Urbina right now.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:21 pm

wrveres wrote:
TheYanks04 wrote:I believe James had that feeling again when he prophessed the philosophy that one does not need a closer (Urbina) when he has Alan Embree. The only thing funnier than his stathead babble is his utter and complete arrogance.


oh soooo agreed .. ;-D ;-D


Sooo, Isringhausen was really some great closer before becoming an A? How about Koch? How about Foulke? How about Street? Why do they all have career year in Oakland?

and wevere, your Pads will pay big price to keep Hoffman, enjoy :-D


and Jack will lose next round
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:38 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:I:

a. did not come out and call for a radicle shift in baseball philosophy to the point where closers should be abolished because medicore MRs can step up just as easily in the 9th inning (hence MR Embree).

b. do not get paid millions to get things right.


If Joe Kerrigan calls for Pedro to be a closer, he is dubbed a moron.

If Bill James calls for Urbina to walk because the Sox can get by with guys like Embree because of some BS stat analysis he runs on his PC, he is a moron.

If a noted fantasy expert starts having 10 team pre-season drafts all with himself in order to see how the draft will likely go, he is an idiot.

If another noted fantasy expert does a Keeper league rating based on a 10 year horizon and as such would rather have Ronnie Belliard over Jeff Kent and somehow thinks he can predict 10 years into the future, guess what, he is an idiot too.


We all make mistakes...no one is perfect. But there are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES.


A radical shift in baseball philosophy only if one's knowledge of baseball history begins in 1970. Prior to that time there was no such thing as a "closer". And James not so radical idea, in fact , it's really reactionary, since it's the way most clubs ran their bullpens prior to 1970, was simply to put your best reliever out there in the most crucial situations. That's not always the 9th inning.

Furthermore, your comments suggest a DEEP ignorance of what the Red Sox were doing. By not overspending on Urbina, the Sox were able to pay for a few free agents to hit--Millar, Mueller, and, oh yeah, a guy named Ortiz. If you want to defend paying $4-6 million on Urbina, rather than $5 million on those three players, go right ahead.
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