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Current Event: Teen Kills GF's Parents

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Postby logan » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:36 am

Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
Chris Rock wrote:What ever happened to Crazy?


I vote for the Death Penalty for this idiot! }:-)


I immediately thought of that same Chris Rock quote when I read this. People seem to overlook that too often. There's not always something to place the blame on...sometimes people are just nuts.


Glad to see we actually are on the same page with some things. :-D ;-D

Art Vandelay wrote:I disagree about sentencing this kid, or anyone else, to death though.


It's a combination of me not being a very forgiving person, along with eliminating idiots, and making them be responsible for their own actions. You murder someone? Time to fry. I fully support the death penalty in any form. Blindfold and a bullet is just as good as the chair, or lethal injection to me. Just the way I am though. B-)


imagine that a guy from texas an avid death penalty supporter :-D




not that i'm not if the situation justifies it's use but i just found it humorous
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Postby blankman » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:50 am

Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
Chris Rock wrote:What ever happened to Crazy?


I vote for the Death Penalty for this idiot! }:-)


I immediately thought of that same Chris Rock quote when I read this. People seem to overlook that too often. There's not always something to place the blame on...sometimes people are just nuts.


Glad to see we actually are on the same page with some things. :-D ;-D

Art Vandelay wrote:I disagree about sentencing this kid, or anyone else, to death though.


It's a combination of me not being a very forgiving person, along with eliminating idiots, and making them be responsible for their own actions. You murder someone? Time to fry. I fully support the death penalty in any form. Blindfold and a bullet is just as good as the chair, or lethal injection to me. Just the way I am though. B-)


Stabbing chair, anyone?


After all, it is free. ;-)


-a young Chris Rock's opinion
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Postby Madison » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:17 pm

logan wrote:
Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
Chris Rock wrote:What ever happened to Crazy?


I vote for the Death Penalty for this idiot! }:-)


I immediately thought of that same Chris Rock quote when I read this. People seem to overlook that too often. There's not always something to place the blame on...sometimes people are just nuts.


Glad to see we actually are on the same page with some things. :-D ;-D

Art Vandelay wrote:I disagree about sentencing this kid, or anyone else, to death though.


It's a combination of me not being a very forgiving person, along with eliminating idiots, and making them be responsible for their own actions. You murder someone? Time to fry. I fully support the death penalty in any form. Blindfold and a bullet is just as good as the chair, or lethal injection to me. Just the way I am though. B-)


imagine that a guy from texas an avid death penalty supporter :-D




not that i'm not if the situation justifies it's use but i just found it humorous


Why do you think I live in Texas? :-D

Well that, and no state income taxes. :-b



Hmm.....A stabbing chair Blank? Now that's an interesting one. :-?

:-D
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:03 pm

New Developments:

Police seized 54 guns from the Lititz home of David Ludwig, who is charged with fatally shooting his girlfriend's parents, according to court papers released yesterday.

After Michael and Cathryn Lee Borden were killed Sunday, police went to the home where David Ludwig, 18, lived with his parents.

"During this limited search for [Ludwig and his missing girlfriend], officers saw in the upper level of the residence, in plain view, gun cases," police said in court papers. "Officers saw a number of firearms which were located in the lower level of the house."

Police removed 18 shotguns, 20 pistols and 16 rifles -- including three assault rifles -- part of a collection owned by Gregory Ludwig, David's father, according to court papers.

David Ludwig took a .40-caliber pistol from the collection and hid it under his coat before going to his girlfriend's home to talk with her parents early Sunday, police said.

He had been called to the Bordens' Warwick Twp. home after their daughter Kara, 14, stayed out all night, police said.

As Ludwig was leaving their home, he shot Michael Borden in the back of his head and then turned and fired one shot into the forehead of Cathryn Lee Borden, police said. The two were pronounced dead at the scene.

David Ludwig then fled with Kara Borden. The two were missing until Monday, when police captured him in Indiana after a chase.

He is being held without bail on murder and kidnapping charges in Lancaster County. Kara Borden has been returned to her family and is represented by attorney Robert D. Beyer.

Beyer would not say yesterday whether investigators have interviewed Kara.

Asked whether police have said if Kara is a target of their investigation, Beyer said: "If she were, I don't know that she would be free. ... I'd like to think if she was the focus of that investigation, she would be in custody."

Gun experts said the collection in the Ludwig home in the 400 block of West Orange Street is not unusual.

"I would know a few guys who are into collecting guns that have that many guns," said Glenn Blantz, owner of Glenn's Guns, Annville. "All those guns are run-of-the-mill guns. There's nothing there that would turn your head."

Neither of Ludwig's parents is licensed as a firearms dealer or collector, according to a check of the national licensing center of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Warwick Twp. police Chief Richard Garipoli Jr. is not taking calls or releasing information about the homicides, a secretary said yesterday. No information was available on whether the guns in the Ludwig home were kept under lock and key.

Among them were three AR-15 assault weapons, which had been banned for sale under a federal firearms law from 1988 until recently. The gun is a civilian version of the M-16 that soldiers used in Vietnam.

The AR-15 is a popular weapon, according to Massad Ayoob, of New Hampshire's Lethal Force Institute, who teaches weapons use to police officers and civilians and testifies as an expert witness in gun cases.

"They've become hugely popular. They're so much easier to shoot than a 30.06" hunting rifle for both formal and informal target shooting, he said.

Ayoob said having 54 weapons is not unusual. "That's what a typical gun enthusiast might have," he said.

East Pennsboro Twp. police Chief Dennis W. McMaster, a police officer for 42 years, said gun owners should keep their firearms locked -- no matter the number.

"I'm not against honest citizens having firearms," McMaster said. "It would have been much more preferable if they wouldn't have been as accessible. A gun safe, or a cheaper way, the way I do it, is rent a safety deposit box [at a bank] and keep them unloaded in there."

Among the guns taken from the home were three Remington Model 870 pump action shotguns, which McMaster said many police departments carry in their cars.

Police also took six Ruger Mini-14s from the Ludwig home, one of them with a collapsible stock that made it easy to conceal.

"That's unusual," McMaster said. "We have a police department of 19 officers and we have five Ruger Mini-14s that we use for patrol rifles," McMaster said. "That's all that we could afford."

Police also took a Glock .40 caliber semi-automatic pistol and a magazine filled with Black Talon cartridges, according to court papers.

Black Talons are hollow-point bullets that expand when they strike tissue. In addition, they have six sharp cutting edges that can cut blood vessels inside the body, adding to the severity of a wound. The manufacturer, Winchester/Olin, took Black Talons off the market in 1994 after a public outcry.


I know that's quite a bit. I'm not pro gun control, although I know very little about guns and gun ownership. This seems excessive to me, especially since a seemingly mentally usntable teenager had such easy access. Is this irresponsible gun ownership, or an unforeseeable consequence to being a gun owner?
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:43 pm

Coppermine wrote:But, in response Yoda, I think she was probably kidnapped... if she went along willingly, well, then it's just as much her fault, but I can only assume that after he killed her parents, she was no longer a willing participant.

We have to wait for the facts to come out on that.


Facts are out. No more kidnapping charges. He left the house without her, and was driving away when she ran out of the house and down the street after him, so that they could "run away, get married, and start a new life together".

..after the guy murdered her parents!!
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Postby Madison » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:35 am

8-o That's a lotta guns...... 8-o :-o


Coppermine wrote:Is this irresponsible gun ownership, or an unforeseeable consequence to being a gun owner?


Just sounds like a crazy kid to me. Sure, the guns could have (and maybe should have) been locked up, but at the same time, you would think an 18 year old kid would have more sense.

Guess not.

FRY HIM! }:-)
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Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Postby StlSluggers » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:24 am

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
Coppermine wrote:But, in response Yoda, I think she was probably kidnapped... if she went along willingly, well, then it's just as much her fault, but I can only assume that after he killed her parents, she was no longer a willing participant.

We have to wait for the facts to come out on that.


Facts are out. No more kidnapping charges. He left the house without her, and was driving away when she ran out of the house and down the street after him, so that they could "run away, get married, and start a new life together".

..after the guy murdered her parents!!

Just that act alone, running out to him after killing her parents, doesn't automatically make her guilty of anything other than stupidity. What it does do, though, is question her involvment in the killings. Did she ask him to do it? If so...

Sad story. :,-(
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Postby Coppermine » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:33 am

StlSluggers wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
Coppermine wrote:But, in response Yoda, I think she was probably kidnapped... if she went along willingly, well, then it's just as much her fault, but I can only assume that after he killed her parents, she was no longer a willing participant.

We have to wait for the facts to come out on that.


Facts are out. No more kidnapping charges. He left the house without her, and was driving away when she ran out of the house and down the street after him, so that they could "run away, get married, and start a new life together".

..after the guy murdered her parents!!

Just that act alone, running out to him after killing her parents, doesn't automatically make her guilty of anything other than stupidity. What it does do, though, is question her involvment in the killings. Did she ask him to do it? If so...

Sad story. :,-(


Yeah, this plot continues to thicken and I'm obsessed with it. What's interesting is that each one of their blogs are online for the world to see... each one of them had 2 or 3 of them and a few have been taken down, but not all of them. There's seriously tens of thousands of comments on each of them.

What's creepier, someone had a picture that David Ludwig logged into his blog on November 17 and wrote IM INOCENT BASTARDS.

I think it might be a hoax, but still, creepy.

So, now we know she ran off with him... it's true, that doesn't make her guilty of anything but stupidity. Now we'll have to wait and see.

There are rumors going around that David Ludwig had, at one time, posted nude photos and sex tapes of himself with both Kara Borden and her 15-year-old sister.

It's captivating to say the least.

So, did homeschooling have anything to do with this? Clearly, Kara Borden had a very limited dating pool and few boys around her that were her age. It seems her parents homeschooled her (and his parents homeschooled him) trying to protect them from the very thing that happened.... teen sex and, more shockingly, murder.

It also seems David Ludwig was quite the sociopath.
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