Current Event: Teen Kills GF's Parents - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Current Event: Teen Kills GF's Parents

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Current Event: Teen Kills GF's Parents

Postby Coppermine » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:47 pm

I live about an hour and a half south of where this happened. It's striking in a number of ways and I think it might make good discussion. The most interesting thing to me is that the 18-year-old killer in this case is a devout Christian. Funny, usually when teenagers kill they're "goth" and their transgressions against society are blamed on their music and entertainment choices. But what do you do when the killer is into Christian rock and Bible study?

Parents, teen argued over curfew
ASHLEY M. HEHER The Associated Press

Her interests included Jesus, soccer, her youth group and her dog. He was preoccupied with a new computer system, his hairstyle and deer hunting.

David G. Ludwig, 18, and Kara Beth Borden, 14, shared their favorite pastimes on Web postings, apparently kindling an adolescent romance. But their parents disapproved of the relationship because of their age difference.

That disapproval apparently cost Kara's parents their lives.

Yesterday, the two Pennsylvania teens were captured by police in Indiana who suspected Ludwig of killing his girlfriend's parents at their home near Lititz, Lancaster County, in an argument over her curfew. Kara was in his car after a police chase that ended in a crash.

Authorities confronted the two after he crashed his parents' car head-on into a tree in Belleville, Ind., some 600 miles from where the killings took place. Kara was not hurt, authorities said.

Not sure of girl's role: Police were questioning Ludwig but had not spoken with Kara. Because of her age, Indiana and Pennsylvania law requires a relative, guardian or attorney to be present.

Investigators said it was not immediately clear whether the girl was abducted or went along willingly, but they were operating on the assumption she was kidnapped.

"It's completely insane, completely insane," Lancaster County Coroner G. Gary Kirchner said. "This isn't a Romeo-and-Juliet deal. This is far worse than that."

Although some friends say the two were secretly dating, police have not clarified the nature of their relationship.

Authorities said Ludwig shot Kara's parents, Michael F. and Cathryn Lee Borden, early Sunday after they and their daughter argued about her curfew when she came home late.

An alert for the girl was issued across the East, and police in Pennsylvania and Indiana investigated reported sightings of the pair as they made their way west in a red Volkswagen Jetta.

Indiana truck stop: Indiana State Police spokesman 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten said authorities received a report yesterday morning of a vehicle matching that description at a truck stop near Fort Wayne. Troopers went to the area, but the car was gone.

Information about the car was broadcast to police statewide, Bursten said, and troopers spotted it around midday on I-70 in Belleville, about 20 miles west of Indianapolis.

Ludwig got off the interstate and led them on a five-mile chase at speeds of 90 to 95 mph on a two-lane state road.

Trooper David Cox said Ludwig was "very reckless and very dangerous at that point," meeting vehicles head-on and running them into a ditch.

Bobby Poteet, 36, a former volunteer firefighter who witnessed the final accident, said he heard sirens and watched the three cars speed by, before Ludwig's car careened into a tree.

"They were flying," he said.

After officers pulled Ludwig from the car, Kara got out and was frantic, screaming and crying, Cox said.

No weapons were found in the car. Police do not know why the pair were in Indiana.

Extradition hearing: Pennsylvania authorities will be in Indiana for an extradition hearing, unless Ludwig waives those proceedings.

He faces preliminary charges in Indiana of criminal recklessness and resisting law enforcement, authorities said. Police in Pennsylvania issued an arrest warrant for Ludwig on charges of criminal homicide and kidnapping.

Web sites maintained by the pair featured adolescent banter and photos of the two teens. Kara was among those who responded when Ludwig recently wrote about his haircut. "Yes your hair is flipping long. And I like it," she wrote.

Ludwig posted dozens of self-portraits, including some posing with what looks like a sword. He had displayed 20 images labeled "Hunting 2004" in which he and other teenage boys held up beer bottles and grinned beside the carcasses of freshly killed deer.

Before police caught up with them, Kara had last been seen wearing a shirt that advertised Pillar, a Christian music band. Just last month, Ludwig posted to his site the lyrics to "And the Rest Will Follow" by the Christian band Project 86: "You want me to put it on the line/And give yield to you this time/See but I won't compromise and I realize/It's my time to rise."

He described himself as a student in the medical field, saying his interests included spending money, "pulling stupid pranks, having soft air gun wars" and claimed expertise in computers, volleyball, movies and "getting in trouble."

Isaac Gregory Heesen, a 14-year-old boy from Columbia, Pa., met Kara through a drama group he participated in with her older sister. He described Kara as "outgoing" and "very strong."

"Her sister, Katelyn, was saying she was kind of being rebellious lately and she has some of the wrong friends," Heesen said yesterday. "She was kind of going away from her family or parents or whatever, and not being right with the Lord."
Coppermine
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 8840
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pennsyltucky

Postby bronxxbomber » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:53 pm

it's just the world we live in ma. anybody can kill if they believe strongly enough in what they're killing for :-t .
Image
Who says I can't be a Yankees and Mets fan???
bronxxbomber
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) DrafterSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3552
Joined: 7 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Watching Over Everything

Postby Coppermine » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:57 pm

bronxxbomber wrote:it's just the world we live in ma. anybody can kill if they believe strongly enough in what they're killing for :-t .


An excellent observation, but how pre-meditated was this killing? He was considered by friends and his family to be a "good Christian." He was homeschooled (as well as his 14-year-old girlfriend). He killed her parents after they had an argument when he took her home way past curfew. He obviously had a gun with him... did he plan to do this all along, or was it a "heat of the moment" type of thing? We'll have to wait and see on those details.
Coppermine
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 8840
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pennsyltucky

Postby chadlincoln » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:58 pm

bronxxbomber wrote:it's just the world we live in ma. anybody can kill if they believe strongly enough in what they're killing for :-t .
Unfortunately too true.
7/26 - Cafe goes down:

General Error
SQL ERROR [ mysql4 ]
Table './cafe_forums/baseball_sessions' is marked as crashed and should be repaired [145]
An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.
chadlincoln
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 10983
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Bleachers at Wrigley Field

Postby logan » Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:10 pm

he had the gun with him and i don't think he was going to the range afterwards. you bring a gun that's premeditation as far as i'm concerned.
logan
General Manager
General Manager

Mock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 2810
Joined: 4 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: newark,delaware

Postby Coppermine » Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:11 pm

logan wrote:he had the gun with him and i don't think he was going to the range afterwards. you bring a gun that's premeditation as far as i'm concerned.


How very Christian of him.
Coppermine
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 8840
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pennsyltucky

Postby Simulacrum » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:03 pm

Coppermine wrote: He was homeschooled (as well as his 14-year-old girlfriend).


Far be it from me to make any sweeping generalizations, but all the REAL freaky-freakies I've met in my life have been home-schooled. If the parents are a little nuts themselves and the kids have no other outlet for acquiring social attitudes and behaviors, they can turn out to be real whackos.
Image
2008 Cafeholics Pond Scum Champion
Future Champion of 2009 Cafeholics Masters
Simulacrum
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Chief Pixel PusherCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberWeb Supporter
Posts: 9875
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On a Mission

Postby Yoda » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:13 pm

Being Christian means squat. Plenty of people consider themselves devout Christians and lie, cheat, steal, etc.

The most disturbing thing is why the girl allowed this to happen. For some pyscho guy to kill your parents is one thing but running away with him after he killed your parents? That to me is worse than what the guy did.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Postby Coppermine » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:27 pm

Yoda wrote:Being Christian means squat. Plenty of people consider themselves devout Christians and lie, cheat, steal, etc.

The most disturbing thing is why the girl allowed this to happen. For some pyscho guy to kill your parents is one thing but running away with him after he killed your parents? That to me is worse than what the guy did.


First of all, he is 18 and she is 14... I think this happened because since she was homeschooled, her dating pool was considerably smaller than if she went to high school.

I've debated homeschooling with people before, and I think it certainly has its advantages and disadvantages, and there are a lot of myths surrounding it.

But, in response Yoda, I think she was probably kidnapped... if she went along willingly, well, then it's just as much her fault, but I can only assume that after he killed her parents, she was no longer a willing participant.

We have to wait for the facts to come out on that.

As for being Christian... well, back to my original point. When a teenager kills, people (and by people, I mean Christian Conservatives and the moral crusaders of our society [Hillary Clinton included, to be fair]) are quick to point out all the horrible things that kid was exposed to... rap music or heavy metal, violent video games, violent movies, violent cultural interests, being "goth," wearing make-up and trenchcoats... there are many ignorant people out there who look at a kid wearing a trenchcoat and white nail polish and figure he'll start shooting up his school any minute.

But what do you do when the kid is a self-proclaimed devout Christian? Or when the kid's only interst in music is Christian Rock? Or if he doesn't act goth or wear trenchcoats or wear nail polish? What do you do when the only video game he plays is Age of Empires?

We can't point at the media anymore... if the kid is screwed up, he's screwed up. There were no "warning signs," no obvious cultural influence. He wasn't just wring lyrics to an Ozzy Osborne song or getting drunk with his buddies. He had just gotten back from a Christian rock concert? So who are the Christian Conservatives going to blame this time?
Coppermine
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 8840
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pennsyltucky

Postby logan » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:32 pm

they won't say or blame anyone. there is no opportunity in it. they will say it's a real tragedy for both families and move along. it will be blown up in the media but then what isn't.
logan
General Manager
General Manager

Mock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 2810
Joined: 4 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: newark,delaware

Next

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unioreimi and 3 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Aug. 22
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Baltimore at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Houston at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Chi White Sox at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
St. Louis at Philadelphia
(7:05 pm)
San Francisco at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Tampa Bay at Toronto
(7:07 pm)
Atlanta at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
Seattle at Boston
(7:10 pm)
Kansas City at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Pittsburgh at Milwaukee
(8:10 pm)
Detroit at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
Miami at Colorado
(8:40 pm)
San Diego at Arizona
(9:40 pm)
LA Angels at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
NY Mets at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact