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Carpenter wins NL Cy Young

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Postby bronxxbomber » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:17 pm

after the evidence, i'll stop my bias as a carpenter owner and admit that clemens was definitely the best pitcher, but i still believe that carpenter was the most valuable pitcher to his team.
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Postby DK » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:16 am

bronxxbomber wrote:after the evidence, i'll stop my bias as a carpenter owner and admit that clemens was definitely the best pitcher, but i still believe that carpenter was the most valuable pitcher to his team.


Please explain what you mean. In all honesty, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:26 am

bronxxbomber wrote:after the evidence, i'll stop my bias as a carpenter owner and admit that clemens was definitely the best pitcher, but i still believe that carpenter was the most valuable pitcher to his team.


How can the best pitcher, not also be the most valuable to his team?
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:42 am

HOOTIE wrote:
bronxxbomber wrote:after the evidence, i'll stop my bias as a carpenter owner and admit that clemens was definitely the best pitcher, but i still believe that carpenter was the most valuable pitcher to his team.


How can the best pitcher, not also be the most valuable to his team?


I think he might be implying that Clemens wasn't as vital to Houston's success because they had other aces like Pettitte and Oswalt while St. Louis relied on Carp to be their stopper. Therefore since Carp was the undisputed ace, and the guy who had to carry that staff, he was more valuable to the Cards than Clemens was to the 'Stros.

I don't agree with that thought but I think that might be what he's trying to say.
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Postby bronxxbomber » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:35 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
bronxxbomber wrote:after the evidence, i'll stop my bias as a carpenter owner and admit that clemens was definitely the best pitcher, but i still believe that carpenter was the most valuable pitcher to his team.


How can the best pitcher, not also be the most valuable to his team?


I think he might be implying that Clemens wasn't as vital to Houston's success because they had other aces like Pettitte and Oswalt while St. Louis relied on Carp to be their stopper. Therefore since Carp was the undisputed ace, and the guy who had to carry that staff, he was more valuable to the Cards than Clemens was to the 'Stros.

I don't agree with that thought but I think that might be what he's trying to say.


pretty much what i mean.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:47 pm

bronxxbomber wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
bronxxbomber wrote:after the evidence, i'll stop my bias as a carpenter owner and admit that clemens was definitely the best pitcher, but i still believe that carpenter was the most valuable pitcher to his team.


How can the best pitcher, not also be the most valuable to his team?


I think he might be implying that Clemens wasn't as vital to Houston's success because they had other aces like Pettitte and Oswalt while St. Louis relied on Carp to be their stopper. Therefore since Carp was the undisputed ace, and the guy who had to carry that staff, he was more valuable to the Cards than Clemens was to the 'Stros.

I don't agree with that thought but I think that might be what he's trying to say.


pretty much what i mean.


The best pitcher, the one with the most value, is also the teams most valuable. You are adding making post season, wins, to the criteria. But even if we do that, Clemens was more valuable.

Cards were 11 games ahead of Houston. Which team would be better off without their ace? Houston won wildcard by only 1 game. Houston is no where without Clemens, while Cards still probably win division.

Cards era 3.49
Astros era 3.51

Cards minus Carpenter was a 3.61 era
Astros minus Clemens was a 3.79 era
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:50 pm

clemens should have won, but carp did have a great 4 month stretch where he was dominant so that must have influenced the voters along with clemens lack of wins....
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