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Offseason plans

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:54 pm

Here's an interesting article from the DET Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/sports/tigers/tige ... 051101.htm

It basically sayd DD is going after a veteran starting P and possibly a closer this offseason. He sees those two things as this teams biggest needs. He also thinks Granderson will be the Tigers CF this yr so he doesnt think they will persue that position through trades or free agency.

The article mentions that Jason Johnson will need to be replaced as he's a FA. Bonderman, Maroth, and Robertson will form the core of the rotation with the new FA and possibly one of the youngsters coming up to fill it out.

Either DY or Pena is likely going to be traded - probably Pena due to DY's contract situation. Shelton is the likely fulltime 1B.

A couple sources have said that DD might be a candidate to take over Theo Epsteins job in Boston - stay tuned...
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:37 pm

I hope the World Series celebrations are already in early planning. Now that we have signed Todd Jones to likely be the closer, I have heard that Kenny Rogers may be close to signing as well, but hopefully the Rogers signing is just a terrible, terrible rumor.
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Postby moochman » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:18 pm

mcqfesijiba wrote: I have heard that Kenny Rogers may be close to signing as well, but hopefully the Rogers signing is just a terrible, terrible rumor.


Rogers did sign, turning your terrible rumor into the Tigers newest terrible tumor.

Once again I have no idea what the heck they are thinking. Todd Jones isn't worth 5.5 mil for this team. He won't see nearly as many save opportunities as he did in FLA, and he is too old to be counted on. And does anyone remember how much fun it was watching him close in the AL. Giving up big leads routinely, as I recall. At 38 his fastball isn't as fast anymore, so look for lots of longballs for Gas Can Jones.

Jones is old unless contrasting him with Rogers. This is a disturbing signing that shows how desperate DD is to try to turn things around. It also shows, IMO, how clueless DD is on how to rebuild this franchise. Rogers is almost as old as his radar gun results. He faded in the second half, has never done well in any pressure games (not that he'll see any big games in Detroit) His Ks were almost non-existant last year, dropping considerably. All indicators are that he is well on his way to suckdom. Welcome to Detroit.

Oh, and lets see how well he can keep it together with the poor offensive play and terrible D that he'll find here. At least he's getting over-paid grossly, but that didn't keep the other Tigers malcontents from whining like little girls.

This is a recipe for disaster. What are you going to do for a rotation? Rogers, Bonderman, Maroth, Robertson, and this years mystery flop. That is a terrible rotation. Too many weak throwing lefties and a marshmello headed righthander. The fifth starter will likely be rookie who throws hard but has already shown a knack for giving up big innings. Yikes. 8-o
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:55 pm

Todd Jones? Solid veteran reliever, but I'm thinking there is no way he repeats last year. I can live with Jones on the team, even though he will definitely be overpaid. Unfortunately, it looks like he'll be our closer even though the results will probably be no better than our mediocre relievers in Dingman and Spurling.

Kenny Rogers? He will be no better than Jason Johnson. Should've offered Johnson arbitration if Rogers is the best we could do. Would've been a better deal for the Tigers if Johnson accepted, if not we would have gotten a free draft pick. Now we have an old guy who whom fans here already dislike based on the reception he got at the all-star break. I would rather see Kenny Baugh get a shot or even Roman Colon than Rogers.

I don't know what the team is really thinking with these deals. All's I can come up with is that they are banking heavily on the young players to step it up and are buying them some time with old at-the-end-of-their-career players without being locked into long term deals.

Chalk me up for having little faith in the team improving this coming year. There's still time, though. Hopefully there will be a trade or signing coming that can actually be seen as a positive sign.
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Postby Dannomyte » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:42 pm

Kenny Rogers? He will be no better than Jason Johnson.


LOL come on man. Kenny Rogers career average numbers are better than any career year Jason Johnson had. Not to mention Kenny Rogers is coming off of a great year pitching in that bandbox in Texas. The CoPa can only help him. I don't think anyone thinks he is going to win the Cy Young this season but he is definitely an upgrade over JJ. The fact that the fans booed him at the All-Star game means jack squat. Everyone hated Chelios when he played for the Blackhawks but as soon as he signed on the dotted line with the Wings he quikly became a fan favorite. As long as Rogers doesn't lay an egg the first month of the season the fans will like him just fine. I actually like the signing, 2 years for a hard nosed proven vet. can only help the young pitchers on the team.

Todd Jones? Solid veteran reliever, but I'm thinking there is no way he repeats last year. I can live with Jones on the team, even though he will definitely be overpaid.


I agree that Jones was overpaid but he is a quality guy who loves playing in Detroit. Sure his skills are on the decline and you're right, he isn't likely to even come close to last years numbers but just like Rogers, Jones adds a proven vet in the pen for the younger pitchers like German and Rodney.

These guys are just bridging the gap until some of our minor league talent is ready to make the next step.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:14 pm

Dannomyte wrote:
Kenny Rogers? He will be no better than Jason Johnson.


LOL come on man. Kenny Rogers career average numbers are better than any career year Jason Johnson had. Not to mention Kenny Rogers is coming off of a great year pitching in that bandbox in Texas. The CoPa can only help him. I don't think anyone thinks he is going to win the Cy Young this season but he is definitely an upgrade over JJ. The fact that the fans booed him at the All-Star game means jack squat. Everyone hated Chelios when he played for the Blackhawks but as soon as he signed on the dotted line with the Wings he quikly became a fan favorite. As long as Rogers doesn't lay an egg the first month of the season the fans will like him just fine. I actually like the signing, 2 years for a hard nosed proven vet. can only help the young pitchers on the team.
Big difference with Chelios. The Wings were championship contenders and Chelios played a huge part. The Tigers are somewhere in a rebuilding phase and have no need for Rogers at this point, or at least unless you cut his salary in half. Besides, fans disliked Chelios as a player who played for a rival and had seen in many huge games, not for acting like a moron off the field.

I never said Johnson has been a better pitcher than Rogers career wise, just that this coming season they will probably be very comparable. Rogers is just a poor fit for this team character-wise and skill set wise. Sure, I would rather have a guy like Millwood over either one, but Jason Johnson would've either yielded a better contract finacially versus performance or a draft pick as compensation had he declined arbitration, he's also had success at Comerica (2.76 ERA, 1.16 WHIP last year) although was sickening on the road, and he doesn't have known off field issues that a whacko like Rogers does.

Rogers will definitely eat up some innings, but I think Tiger fans will dissapointed as to how many of those will be quality innings.
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Postby moochman » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:11 am

mcqfesijiba wrote:I don't know what the team is really thinking with these deals. All's I can come up with is that they are banking heavily on the young players to step it up and are buying them some time with old at-the-end-of-their-career players without being locked into long term deals.

Chalk me up for having little faith in the team improving this coming year. There's still time, though. Hopefully there will be a trade or signing coming that can actually be seen as a positive sign.


I'll tell you what I think they're thinking about. They over pay for fading players. And you have to, it a penalty for sucking. But what concerns me is they apparently were never in on any of the early trades. I suspect that DD is so enamored with Granderson and Verlander that he will not trade them. Wrongly IMO, as I think they are both grossly over-rated. Granderson is at best going to be a mediocre major leaguer, and Verlander who has proved nothing so far. This indicates to me that other teams feel there is nothing in the Tigers system or roster worth trading for.

As for DD reluctance to trade the two, I feel that the same reason he overpays for elders, he has to try and put a team on the field that isn't going to lose close to 100 games again and he has to talk up the kids to prove that he is developing a minor league system. He is reaching to save his rep.

He should have given up Granderson for Thome, send Pena and a bag of peanuts to Florida for Pierre. Then he would have a proven power hitter and a decent CF who fits the ballpark. There was help out there via trades that the Tigers really needed. A terrible sign that the Tigers are still due for a major rebuilding. A perpetual state of being for this disgraceful organization.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:22 pm

The biggest thing that bothers me about the Rogers signing is that there are still many better pitchers out there available via FA or trades, yet they still ran out and got him. I happen to like Paul Byrd a bit more than Rogers and he went cheaper (2 yrs/$14M). I seriously doubt teams were beating down on Rogers' door with 8 million per year contracts, but this team jumped all over him so we wouldn't "miss out".

I'm definitely dissapointed with the whole Kenny Rogers deal, but it's done and we can only hope this team can shock us all and put things together despite some early signs of pessimism.
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Postby moochman » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:14 am

That they paid so dearly for Rogers and didn't land any of the many wiser FAs out there shows just the reason that hope is all there is for the Tigers. No optimism, no potential, no promise, no future, no present, no chance. Just hope that "this team can shock us".

The only shock I want is for DD and the scouting, minor league coaching staffs be fired. Then there'll be hope.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:43 pm

I'm not ready to give up on DD yet. The farm system is massively improved (David Chadd deserves credit too. He could be a genius or a fluke, we'll find out.) and his trades usually are ok. Free agency has been a mixed bag thus far, leaning towards being bad.

Is he 100% at fault for the current passiveness of the offseason? Maybe, but there are at least two other possiblities.
1)Everybody's favorite inept baseball owner has tightened the available budget making things tough for DD to trade for players or sign higher priced FAs. I have a feeling this is a likely scenario.
2)In what is being considered a weak group of FA, they are saving up some money to be bigger players in 2007, while at the same time seeing what some of their MLB ready (or near) young players are capable of. I'm not so sure about this one, but it is certainly possible.

I'm not exactly defending anything DD is doing, but what I am is someone who sees the root of many problems coming from above DD. Ilitch is clueless when it comes to running a baseball franchise. I don't care who the GM is, if Ilitch doesn't get things figured out and take some accountability of his own, then there are few if any GMs that can succeed here.
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