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Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:37 pm

wrveres wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Strasil42 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
davidmarver wrote:And the fact that the Red Sox and Yankees aren't in the Dodgers division every season.


Wasn't it the Padre fans in the Rivera/Hoffman thread who claimed how much tougher Hoffman had it in the NL West?


Yes it was. But they stopped with that argument after someone posted some almost comical stats to compare the two. The NL west is a joke.


another point that was missed by you guys .... my god .. I think you all have ADD too somtimes ... I kid I kid, well maybe not in strasils case ... ;-7 (as soon as I saw that post i knew he was going to show up how funny)

The point was ... That all of the teams are competitive in the NL West. Outside of Colorado, Trevor Hoffman does not get to close against the annual doormats known as the Orioles, Rays and Jays


Well that wasn't a very smart post now was it?

Total runs
Blue Jays 775 8/30
D-Ray 750 12/30
Orioles 729 15/30

NL Worst
Rockies 740 14/30
D-Backs 696 23/30
Dodgers 685 26/30
Padres 684 27/30
Giants 649 29/30

IMHO it would be easier to close against teams that can't score runs.


which of course leads to alot more one runs games now doesnt it .. ;-D


I need a "what the hell are you trying to say?" emoticon. Maybe this one :-S Or this one X-I

Are you saying that it is harder to close against the Giants with the second worst offence in the ML, the Padres with the 4th worst offence and the Dodgers with the 5th worst offence then it is to close against the Jays, Rays and O's with the 8th, 12th and 15th best offences respectively?

If that's your argument (and I believe that it is) then by extrapolation it is easier to close against the Red Sox with Manny and Papi up in the ninth and the Yanks with A-Rod and Sheff up in the ninth then it is to close against the Little league Allentown Tigers (who are notoriously bad hitters, I'm talking NLWest-bad).

It's logic like this that makes it very difficult to trade with you and impossible to discuss politics ;-)
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:47 pm

davidmarver wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
davidmarver wrote:And the fact that the Red Sox and Yankees aren't in the Dodgers division every season.


Wasn't it the Padre fans in the Rivera/Hoffman thread who claimed how much tougher Hoffman had it in the NL West?

Yes, because the NL West's record (without the Padres record included) had been better than the AL East's record (without the Yankees included) for quite some time since the comparison was Hoffman's opponents vs. Rivera's opponents. Once you add in the Padres and Yankees records, that's not the case.

Nice try at distorting my words though ;-D
Why would you look at win/loss records when comparing teams closers face? Wouldn't opponent's offense be a better tool?
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:50 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:Who cares? They just better stay away from Riccardi. He already said no to them once, I hope that he says no again.

That's the scary thought, I'm thinking Ricciardi could bolt... :-o


Nothing against JP, but i got to ask all, why is Depodesta the bad GM, and no one ever has said a word about JP, who like Paul, is a numbers guy.

JP's record

78-84
86-76
67-94
80-82

That's much worse then DePodestas record in LA. Why does everyone hate Paul, yet i don't recall ever seeing a bad word about JP anywhere ever.

Well, don't the Dodgers have much more to work with than the Jays, as well as having much higher expectations?


JP record

311-336

Shouldn't Toronto have bigger expectations then being .480 the last 4 years?

There isn't really much point in comaring these 2 situations as they are both considerably different.

The Dodgers were paying DePodesta to win RIGHT NOW, and he didn't get the job done. In the case of Ricciardi, both the Jays ownership and the fan base, knew it would be a long-term project with him, therefore JP's record really doesn't matter much to anybody. Though of course, if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs in the next 2 years (the timeframe of which he said this team would become a contender), I'm sure that Godfrey wouldn't hesitate to ship him out.
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:58 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
davidmarver wrote:And the fact that the Red Sox and Yankees aren't in the Dodgers division every season.


Wasn't it the Padre fans in the Rivera/Hoffman thread who claimed how much tougher Hoffman had it in the NL West?

Yes, because the NL West's record (without the Padres record included) had been better than the AL East's record (without the Yankees included) for quite some time since the comparison was Hoffman's opponents vs. Rivera's opponents. Once you add in the Padres and Yankees records, that's not the case.

Nice try at distorting my words though ;-D
Why would you look at win/loss records when comparing teams closers face? Wouldn't opponent's offense be a better tool?

When you take into consideration the fact that no closer will ever face a pitcher then using total runs is kinda a distorted figure. And don't try the whole 'pinch hitters stink' routine since there's normally a starter that took the game off that comes off the bench late to pinch hit. Besides, the argument was before this season, so using statistics from this season to justify a beginning of the season statement is kinda lame.

Look...I used every other stat in that argument...how Mariano's best k/9 seasons are barely above Hoffman's career k/9, how Hoffman has over 50 more career saves, while having LESS blown saves, while closing more 1-run games, while closing less 3-run games, etc.

But that's not what this thread is about.
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Postby The Jury » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:09 pm

With regards to the Yankees GM position, I think someone with the name "Cashman" is only fitting :-D
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Postby wrveres » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:10 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Strasil42 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
davidmarver wrote:And the fact that the Red Sox and Yankees aren't in the Dodgers division every season.


Wasn't it the Padre fans in the Rivera/Hoffman thread who claimed how much tougher Hoffman had it in the NL West?


Yes it was. But they stopped with that argument after someone posted some almost comical stats to compare the two. The NL west is a joke.


another point that was missed by you guys .... my god .. I think you all have ADD too somtimes ... I kid I kid, well maybe not in strasils case ... ;-7 (as soon as I saw that post i knew he was going to show up how funny)

The point was ... That all of the teams are competitive in the NL West. Outside of Colorado, Trevor Hoffman does not get to close against the annual doormats known as the Orioles, Rays and Jays


Well that wasn't a very smart post now was it?

Total runs
Blue Jays 775 8/30
D-Ray 750 12/30
Orioles 729 15/30

NL Worst
Rockies 740 14/30
D-Backs 696 23/30
Dodgers 685 26/30
Padres 684 27/30
Giants 649 29/30

IMHO it would be easier to close against teams that can't score runs.


which of course leads to alot more one runs games now doesnt it .. ;-D


I need a "what the hell are you trying to say?" emoticon. Maybe this one :-S Or this one X-I

Are you saying that it is harder to close against the Giants with the second worst offence in the ML, the Padres with the 4th worst offence and the Dodgers with the 5th worst offence then it is to close against the Jays, Rays and O's with the 8th, 12th and 15th best offences respectively?

If that's your argument (and I believe that it is) then by extrapolation it is easier to close against the Red Sox with Manny and Papi up in the ninth and the Yanks with A-Rod and Sheff up in the ninth then it is to close against the Little league Allentown Tigers (who are notoriously bad hitters, I'm talking NLWest-bad).

It's logic like this that makes it very difficult to trade with you and impossible to discuss politics ;-)


I am guesing you didn't like my Tejada for Brian Giles offer !+)
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Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:22 pm

wrveres wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Strasil42 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
davidmarver wrote:And the fact that the Red Sox and Yankees aren't in the Dodgers division every season.


Wasn't it the Padre fans in the Rivera/Hoffman thread who claimed how much tougher Hoffman had it in the NL West?


Yes it was. But they stopped with that argument after someone posted some almost comical stats to compare the two. The NL west is a joke.


another point that was missed by you guys .... my god .. I think you all have ADD too somtimes ... I kid I kid, well maybe not in strasils case ... ;-7 (as soon as I saw that post i knew he was going to show up how funny)

The point was ... That all of the teams are competitive in the NL West. Outside of Colorado, Trevor Hoffman does not get to close against the annual doormats known as the Orioles, Rays and Jays


Well that wasn't a very smart post now was it?

Total runs
Blue Jays 775 8/30
D-Ray 750 12/30
Orioles 729 15/30

NL Worst
Rockies 740 14/30
D-Backs 696 23/30
Dodgers 685 26/30
Padres 684 27/30
Giants 649 29/30

IMHO it would be easier to close against teams that can't score runs.


which of course leads to alot more one runs games now doesnt it .. ;-D


I need a "what the hell are you trying to say?" emoticon. Maybe this one :-S Or this one X-I

Are you saying that it is harder to close against the Giants with the second worst offence in the ML, the Padres with the 4th worst offence and the Dodgers with the 5th worst offence then it is to close against the Jays, Rays and O's with the 8th, 12th and 15th best offences respectively?

If that's your argument (and I believe that it is) then by extrapolation it is easier to close against the Red Sox with Manny and Papi up in the ninth and the Yanks with A-Rod and Sheff up in the ninth then it is to close against the Little league Allentown Tigers (who are notoriously bad hitters, I'm talking NLWest-bad).

It's logic like this that makes it very difficult to trade with you and impossible to discuss politics ;-)


I am guesing you didn't like my Tejada for Brian Giles offer !+)


Not really. Next you are going to try to convince me that Tom Delay is misunderstood ;-)
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Postby wrveres » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:30 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
wrveres wrote:
I am guesing you didn't like my Tejada for Brian Giles offer !+)


Not really. Next you are going to try to convince me that Tom Delay is misunderstood ;-)


well if you dont want Tejada for Giles :-o curious as to why..

a counter is always nice.
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Postby rotterdam_82 » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:33 pm

8-o

He didn't want Tejad for Giles straight up? The man is either clinicaly insane, or has some serious value issues.

And why the heck would you want to do that deal? The world has gone mad.......

:-D
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Postby blankman » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:39 pm

Maybe they count OBP and Walks :-?
Last edited by blankman on Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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