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Carl Pavano on Trading Block??

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Postby brandnew » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:59 pm

.276/.326/.354/.680 with a bad SB %, and not that great of a fielder. He's got speed, but no arm whatsoever.

He was a pretty decent player before this year due to his high batting average, but the drop in 50 points there completely killed his value.
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Postby slomo007 » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:13 pm

brandnew wrote:.276/.326/.354/.680 with a bad SB %, and not that great of a fielder. He's got speed, but no arm whatsoever.

He was a pretty decent player before this year due to his high batting average, but the drop in 50 points there completely killed his value.


You don't think it was a fluke? I do. Every player has good/bad years with the exception of the true superstars. There's a very good chance he'll go back to .300+ this season.

The volatility of fantasy owners' feelings towards great players that have 1 poor year is alarming to me. His year wasn't even that bad - just his average. Everything else about it was fine. I just don't get it.
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Postby brandnew » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:17 pm

a 50 point drop in batting average is pretty bad, that's what I was judging my assessment on. If I was a GM, I wouldn't want to take the chance on a guy who never has been THAT great of a player, who just had a horrible year, and would take a lot to acquire.

If he goes back to hitting .330, then sure, he's a pretty productive player. Until then, though, I'll have my doubts about him.
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Postby slomo007 » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:26 pm

He was only 25 points off his career average. I think the problem is that we shouldn't expect him to be a .320 hitter either. A .300 hitter who doesn't walk much but also doesn't strike out much, steals about 2 out of 3 bags he attempts, and scores 100 runs/year.

While it's not superstar material, the Yankees could DEFINITELY use him to hit leadoff and set the stage for Jeter/Arod/Sheff. Having a presence on the basepaths to disrupt the pitchers would be worth more than Pierre's value on paper.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:34 pm

Why do the Yankees need him as a leadoff hitter? Why do they need him at all? He's not a good fielder. He has no arm. He doesn't walk. His SB% is not very impressive.

Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Pierre. The Yankees are better served getting a rookie who plays solid defense rather than pay out the a** to get Pierre.
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Postby slomo007 » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:38 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:Why do the Yankees need him as a leadoff hitter? Why do they need him at all? He's not a good fielder. He has no arm. He doesn't walk. His SB% is not very impressive.

Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Pierre. The Yankees are better served getting a rookie who plays solid defense rather than pay out the a** to get Pierre.


I agree that Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Pierre, but having Pierre leadoff with Jeter 2nd would be a fantastic 1/2.

I notice you point out his negatives without mentioning the positives....Ks about 40-50 times per 650-700 ABs. That's big, especially in the AL when there might actually be runners on base when he gets to bat as opposed to trailing the pitcher. Also, I notice you didn't mention that he scores 100 runs a year in the NL and on a team with not nearly as good of an offense as NY. On NY, I would expect 120 runs/year.

Plus, I notice you didn't mention that he's a relatively healthy player who rarely misses a game. He would be a reliable presence to anchor CF, which is something NY hasn't had since Bernie in his prime.

I don't know why I'm arguing this, I hope Yankees fans don't want him so that he doesn't go there somehow.
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Postby RynMan » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:40 pm

slomo007 wrote:I don't know why I'm arguing this, I hope Yankees fans don't want him so that he doesn't go there somehow.


Classic. :-b
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:45 pm

slomo007 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Why do the Yankees need him as a leadoff hitter? Why do they need him at all? He's not a good fielder. He has no arm. He doesn't walk. His SB% is not very impressive.

Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Pierre. The Yankees are better served getting a rookie who plays solid defense rather than pay out the a** to get Pierre.


I agree that Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Pierre, but having Pierre leadoff with Jeter 2nd would be a fantastic 1/2.

I notice you point out his negatives without mentioning the positives....Ks about 40-50 times per 650-700 ABs. That's big, especially in the AL when there might actually be runners on base when he gets to bat as opposed to trailing the pitcher. Also, I notice you didn't mention that he scores 100 runs a year in the NL and on a team with not nearly as good of an offense as NY. On NY, I would expect 120 runs/year.

Plus, I notice you didn't mention that he's a relatively healthy player who rarely misses a game. He would be a reliable presence to anchor CF, which is something NY hasn't had since Bernie in his prime.

I don't know why I'm arguing this, I hope Yankees fans don't want him so that he doesn't go there somehow.


I never said Pierre was a terrible player. I just don't want him. The Yankees don't need a player like him. That is the bottom line.

I didn't mention those positives because none of them fill the Yankees needs, besides for that he's young and stays relatively healthy. That can be found with a number of people though.

What do the Yankees need?
-Player with lots of range in the outfield.
-Player with a solid glove.
-Player with a strong arm.

Now which of these does Pierre fill? I don't think he fills any. Definately not worth it when you talk about what New York would have to give up to get him.
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Postby slomo007 » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:47 pm

I agree if we're talking about what it would take to get him...I see your point there. I guess I am directing this more towards blankman for saying that he "wants no part of him."

His arm stinks, but can't be worse than Bernie's.

I just don't see very many CFers out there for NY, possibly Damon but I'd rather have Pierre anyways personally, but then again you can just sign Damon rather than having to trade for Pierre.
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Postby brandnew » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:51 pm

Runs aren't really a great statistic in evaluating a player... it depends on the players behind him batting him in..
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