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Postby wrveres » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:36 pm

Amazinz wrote:I do not believe sabermetricians are responsible for the 100-pitch pitch count but rumor is that they are secretly funding PETA and are indirectly the cause of world hunger.


I am not surpirsed ... Those darn saber-heads ... }:-)


As for the reports .. I read the Sun, the Washington Post and the AJC .. and not a one of them said the same thing, except that he was close to signing... The Washington Post was the one claiming that ATL was now asking for a prospect in return.
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:38 pm

Here is the Baltimore Sun article from this morning:

Baltimore Sun wrote:Mazzone, O's near deal
Sources say pitching coach could agree to terms today
By Jeff Zrebiec
Sun reporter
Originally published October 20, 2005
An agreement could be finalized today that will enable the Atlanta Braves' Leo Mazzone to become the Orioles' next pitching coach, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

Mazzone, lauded as one of the top pitching coaches in baseball, appeared to be the leading candidate for the New York Yankees' and Orioles' vacancies. He withdrew from the Yankees' consideration yesterday morning because of his preference to come to Baltimore and work alongside longtime friend and Orioles manager Sam Perlozzo.

The only holdup to the deal, according to league sources, is for the Orioles and Braves to work out compensation for Mazzone, who has been in the Atlanta organization since 1979 and the Braves' pitching coach since 1990.

According to league sources, the compensation issues are likely not deal-breaking and the Orioles are confident Mazzone will be their next pitching coach, replacing Ray Miller.

Mazzone's contract is up in three weeks, and even if compensation can't be worked out, the Orioles would appear to be able to hire Mazzone without needing Atlanta's approval.

Asked yesterday afternoon if the situation will be resolved quickly, Braves executive vice president and general manager John Schuerholz, who had given the Orioles permission to interview the coach, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: "I'm not real good at guessing, but it may."

Orioles executive vice president Mike Flanagan denied a deal with Mazzone had been reached but said he couldn't comment further on the situation.

Meanwhile, Flanagan is likely to announce today that New York Mets senior vice president of baseball operations Jim Duquette, the Mets' former general manager, has been hired as Orioles vice president, according to team sources.

Duquette, 39, had his second interview within a week's span yesterday and agreed to the job offer, according to sources.

"We had some very meaningful talks today, but nothing has been completed," Flanagan said last night. "Talks went well, but at this point, it hasn't been finalized."

It is doubtful the hirings of Duquette and Mazzone would be announced simultaneously. Regardless, the Orioles are expected to complete a huge coup in nabbing Mazzone.

The speculation was that if Mazzone was to leave Bobby Cox, who has managed the Braves to 14 consecutive division titles, he was ticketed to New York to replace the departed Mel Stottlemyre and become Joe Torre's pitching coach.

Given a window to negotiate by the league, the two sides talked, but Mazzone's agent, Jack Reale, said last night that the "discussions that we had with the Yankees came and went without an agreement."

The news was cheered in Atlanta, where at least one television station reported that since the Yankees were out of the picture, Mazzone was returning to the Braves.

However, according to several league sources, if Mazzone was to leave Atlanta, he was more intrigued by coming to Baltimore to team with Perlozzo. The two grew up together in Western Maryland and after being competitors in American Legion Baseball, they became best friends.

When they were in the early stages of their coaching career, Mazzone, 57, who still has family in Maryland, moved about three houses away from Perlozzo in Cumberland. Perlozzo was the best man at Mazzone's wedding.

Perlozzo said he was pleased with Miller but had always dreamed of having Mazzone as his pitching coach if the situation ever presented itself. Miller, who had surgery last week to repair an aortic aneurysm, gave Perlozzo permission to talk to another pitching coach before his surgery.

Mazzone's credentials led ESPN.com recently to declare him the top assistant coach ever in sports. Known for his intensity and his constant sway in the dugout while he focuses on every pitch, Mazzone has mentored six Cy Young Award winners and nine 20-game winners.

Greg Maddux, John Smoltz and Tom Glavine are his most prized pupils, but Mazzone perhaps deserves more credit for his reclamation project pitchers such as Jaret Wright, Mike Hampton and Chris Hammond, who found their form under his tutelage.

From 1992 through this year, the Braves ranked either first or second in league ERA every season but two. Current Orioles starter Bruce Chen worked with Mazzone in the Braves' organization for seven seasons and said yesterday that his philosophy is similar to Miller's.

Leo Mazzone's philosophies

Throw at least twice on the mound between starts instead of the usual once. In spring training and in general, throw a lot but easily. "I had a great teacher: Johnny Sain. His motto was, 'You throw more often with less exertion.' ... What you have to do is regulate effort. You're trying to acquire command and touch. ... Your arm injuries occur from overexertion and overthrowing."

Command the down-and-away strike with your fastball and change speeds. Velocity is overrated. "I think they should throw radar guns out the window. ... It isn't how hard you throw. It's what you selected and where did it end up."

Pitch counts are overrated. "I wish they wouldn't put pitch counts on the scoreboard because they might convince some pitcher that they are getting tired."

Running is overrated. "You go to these other camps, and they're running these pitchers up and down these mountains and over these hills with parachutes and around these cones. Know what good that does you? Nothing, if you can't put a fastball where you want it."

Leo Mazzone

Born: Oct. 16, 1948, in Keyser, W.Va.

Raised: Allegany County, Md.

Pro career: Minor league pitcher from 1967 to 1975, compiling a 53-56 record.

Coaching career: Minor league manager, minor league pitching instructor, minor league pitching coach from 1976 to 1984, 1986 to 1990. Braves pitching coach 1985 (co-coach), 1990 to 2005.

Accomplishments: Nine 20-game winners, six Cy Young winners. Co-wrote book Pitch Like A Pro.

Jim Duquette

Previous job: New York Mets senior vice president of baseball operations.

Other positions: General manager, senior assistant GM, director of player personnel, other farm system positions with Mets from 1991 to 1996, 1997 to 2005. Director of player of development with Houston Astros in 1996 and 1997.

College: Williams (Mass.). Played on baseball team.

Personal: Worked for athletic footwear company Puma. Cousin of former Boston Red Sox GM Dan Duquette.
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:40 pm

OK one is referring to it specifically as a prospect and the other generally as compensation.
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Postby TB13 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:45 pm

slomo007 wrote:I think everyone calling for the Braves' demise should think twice.

I was going to say the same thing, Slomo. Moreso, I believe that there is a reason that the Braves are letting him go. You do not win 14 consecutive division titles w/o being smart. And the Braves front office has been amongst the smartest. What the reason is, I do not know. But I would be just a tad skeptical if I was an O's fan.
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Postby slomo007 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:48 pm

Music2004Man wrote:
slomo007 wrote:I think everyone calling for the Braves' demise should think twice. Atlanta had the 6th best ERA in the NL this year, I believe, and they still won their division. Hudson underperformed, Hampton was hurt, and Thomson was hurt much of the year.

Unless Mazzone was the one calling the shots such as bringing up Franceur, then I attribute this year's success solely to Bobby Cox. Yes, Mazzone has done marvelous work in the past. Jaret Wright especially. But, I don't think he is the reason for Atlanta winning this year. And I think that just proves that it's entirely possible for Atlanta to win without him. To make it even less likely they'll fall off, consider that all of the youth they had this year will just be another year older and more mature. Cox will have a lot of weapons available next year, so I see no reason to think they won't win the division again.


I respect your opinion but I disagree that this years success is due solely to Bobby Cox. A team which is 6th in the NL in ERA is better than half of the teams. With Hudson, Hampton and Thomson missing a good amount of time, and Danny Kolb blowing up at the beginning of the year I think that it's very impressive that they were able to have the 6th best ERA in the league. You can thank Mazzone for that.


OK, so next year as long as Hudson/Hampton/Thomson stay relatively healthy, are we in agreement that the Braves still have a great chance to finish 1st?
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Postby wrveres » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:51 pm

slomo007 wrote:
Music2004Man wrote:
slomo007 wrote:I think everyone calling for the Braves' demise should think twice. Atlanta had the 6th best ERA in the NL this year, I believe, and they still won their division. Hudson underperformed, Hampton was hurt, and Thomson was hurt much of the year.

Unless Mazzone was the one calling the shots such as bringing up Franceur, then I attribute this year's success solely to Bobby Cox. Yes, Mazzone has done marvelous work in the past. Jaret Wright especially. But, I don't think he is the reason for Atlanta winning this year. And I think that just proves that it's entirely possible for Atlanta to win without him. To make it even less likely they'll fall off, consider that all of the youth they had this year will just be another year older and more mature. Cox will have a lot of weapons available next year, so I see no reason to think they won't win the division again.


I respect your opinion but I disagree that this years success is due solely to Bobby Cox. A team which is 6th in the NL in ERA is better than half of the teams. With Hudson, Hampton and Thomson missing a good amount of time, and Danny Kolb blowing up at the beginning of the year I think that it's very impressive that they were able to have the 6th best ERA in the league. You can thank Mazzone for that.


OK, so next year as long as Hudson/Hampton/Thomson stay relatively healthy, are we in agreement that the Braves still have a great chance to finish 1st?


Hampton is cooked till 2007
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Postby slomo007 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:01 pm

wrveres wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Music2004Man wrote:
slomo007 wrote:I think everyone calling for the Braves' demise should think twice. Atlanta had the 6th best ERA in the NL this year, I believe, and they still won their division. Hudson underperformed, Hampton was hurt, and Thomson was hurt much of the year.

Unless Mazzone was the one calling the shots such as bringing up Franceur, then I attribute this year's success solely to Bobby Cox. Yes, Mazzone has done marvelous work in the past. Jaret Wright especially. But, I don't think he is the reason for Atlanta winning this year. And I think that just proves that it's entirely possible for Atlanta to win without him. To make it even less likely they'll fall off, consider that all of the youth they had this year will just be another year older and more mature. Cox will have a lot of weapons available next year, so I see no reason to think they won't win the division again.


I respect your opinion but I disagree that this years success is due solely to Bobby Cox. A team which is 6th in the NL in ERA is better than half of the teams. With Hudson, Hampton and Thomson missing a good amount of time, and Danny Kolb blowing up at the beginning of the year I think that it's very impressive that they were able to have the 6th best ERA in the league. You can thank Mazzone for that.


OK, so next year as long as Hudson/Hampton/Thomson stay relatively healthy, are we in agreement that the Braves still have a great chance to finish 1st?


Hampton is cooked till 2007


What a waste. Jorge Sosa's responsibility just grew. :-°
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Postby wrveres » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:12 pm

slomo007 wrote:
wrveres wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Music2004Man wrote:
slomo007 wrote:I think everyone calling for the Braves' demise should think twice. Atlanta had the 6th best ERA in the NL this year, I believe, and they still won their division. Hudson underperformed, Hampton was hurt, and Thomson was hurt much of the year.

Unless Mazzone was the one calling the shots such as bringing up Franceur, then I attribute this year's success solely to Bobby Cox. Yes, Mazzone has done marvelous work in the past. Jaret Wright especially. But, I don't think he is the reason for Atlanta winning this year. And I think that just proves that it's entirely possible for Atlanta to win without him. To make it even less likely they'll fall off, consider that all of the youth they had this year will just be another year older and more mature. Cox will have a lot of weapons available next year, so I see no reason to think they won't win the division again.


I respect your opinion but I disagree that this years success is due solely to Bobby Cox. A team which is 6th in the NL in ERA is better than half of the teams. With Hudson, Hampton and Thomson missing a good amount of time, and Danny Kolb blowing up at the beginning of the year I think that it's very impressive that they were able to have the 6th best ERA in the league. You can thank Mazzone for that.


OK, so next year as long as Hudson/Hampton/Thomson stay relatively healthy, are we in agreement that the Braves still have a great chance to finish 1st?


Hampton is cooked till 2007


What a waste. Jorge Sosa's responsibility just grew. :-°


wonder who his pitching coach is going to be .. ;-7
I hear Stottlemyre is available.
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Postby George_Foreman » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:39 pm

my suspicion is that the braves will promote from within their organization. it's a baseless suspicion, but i'd be kind of surprised if they went out and hired somebody else.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:43 pm

In Rob Neyer's chat today he said Mazzone's salary with Atlanta was roughly $250,000. 8-o Seems awfully low to me.
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