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Postby George_Foreman » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:10 am

To push this thread back to topic:

I've said it before, but Willy Taveras is one of the most overrated players around, especially in fantasy place like this. He hits for a good average and steals bags. that's IT. He doesn't walk, he doesn't hit the ball out of the infield, he just beats out little nubbers too the SS.

Oh, don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player for fantasy; that .291 BA and those 35 SB are hard to argue with. But consider: while he had a decent average, his OBP was a paltry .325. His OPS this year was .666! Jeff Francoeur had a .549 SLG!!!

Oh, yeah, and people jump up and down on Francoeur for not taking a walk.... Well, he had 11 BB in 257 ABs. Quick Willy, OTOH, had 25 BB in 597 ABs!! These guys drew walks at exactly the same rate!

It just kills me that people think Taveras is a "good" baseball player. He's got some skills on defense, I'll give him that, but this guy is not ROY material.
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Postby HOOTIE » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:27 am

daullaz wrote:Exactly. I mean, what's the opinion of the people that actually play the game worth? Who asked them? How are they qualified to decide who the best baseball player is?


Worth more then the average fan, but then again, they are paid to play, not evaluate. I doubt any player spends any time evalulating other players. Mgrs vote on Gold Gloves, yet they give it to guys who play 28 games?

Let's see how TSN Player of the Year (AJones) ranked with his peers.

BA ranked 111th
OBA ranked 79th
OPS ranked 19th
Runs Created ranked 21st
RC/27 ranked 39th
Win Shares ranked 48th
Vorp ranked 21st

I stand corrected. AJones was Player of the year, after all he didn't make the top 10 in any of the 7 catergories above. ;-)
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Postby blankman » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:32 am

HOOTIE wrote:
daullaz wrote:Exactly. I mean, what's the opinion of the people that actually play the game worth? Who asked them? How are they qualified to decide who the best baseball player is?


Worth more then the average fan, but then again, they are paid to play, not evaluate. I doubt any player spends any time evalulating other players. Mgrs vote on Gold Gloves, yet they give it to guys who play 28 games?

Let's see how TSN Player of the Year (AJones) ranked with his peers.

BA ranked 111th
OBA ranked 79th
OPS ranked 19th
Runs Created ranked 21st
RC/27 ranked 39th
Win Shares ranked 48th
Vorp ranked 21st

I stand corrected. AJones was Player of the year, after all he didn't make the top 10 in any of the 7 catergories above. ;-)


The top 18 no less :-°
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Postby OhMrScottyTrav06 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:36 am

Just some of my opinions on the awards:

Paul Lo Duca as Catcher of the Year in the NL? Wow...

Ken Macha #2 manager of the year in AL? Are you kidding me? He doesn't do anything...

I'd take Soriano over Roberts at 2B in the AL...

Bartolo Colon was a clear winner as AL Pitcher of the Year... Would almost be a shock now if he didn't win the Cy Young

I think Bob Wickman deserved the Comeback Player of the Year over Giambi. Though I commend Giambi for fighting through the Roid aftermath, but he put himself into that situation while Wick was on the brink of not pitching ever again in 2003, just my thoughts...

I wonder when they voted on this? Hopefully after the season was completed and before the playoffs started.
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Postby HOOTIE » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:12 am

OhMrScottyTrav06 wrote:I'd take Soriano over Roberts at 2B in the AL...

Bartolo Colon was a clear winner as AL Pitcher of the Year... Would almost be a shock now if he didn't win the Cy Young.


Roberts beat Soriano in avg/oba/slugging%/ops/runs created/rc/27/win shares/vorp.

Colon only lead in wins, was 8th in era, 4th in win shares, 5th in vorp. He probably won, but i heard the vote was close.
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Postby daullaz » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:49 am

blankman wrote:
daullaz wrote:
blankman wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
blankman wrote:Andruw Jones? You've got to be kidding me. The players themselves must be idots.


No, only 194 of the 498. :-D
You can tell they watch ESPN alot too.


Yeah, apparently they do.

Awfully sad isn't it?

I mean, a .263 Average and bad OBP to boot? I guess that's why they're playing the game, and not evaluating it in the FO.


Exactly. I mean, what's the opinion of the people that actually play the game worth? Who asked them? How are they qualified to decide who the best baseball player is?


Only because they happened to say what you want them to say do you agree with them.


Who said that they are saying what I want them to say? I like Andruw; I'm glad he won, but I really couldn't care less. It's not like he's anointed with the power to make all the decisions in baseball by winning the award. They asked his peers who they thought the best ballplayer this year was, and more of them said him than anyone else. That's all.

I don't see how anyone can say that he's not deserving, when this award is purely based on the opinion of major league baseball players, not statistics. If everyone around the nation that does my job was polled and they voted me best, I would be pretty happy about that, regardless of whether someone stepped out to argue that I'm not the best based on his/her opinion derived from pure statistical analysis.

So I say, congrats Andruw. ;-D
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Postby RAmst23 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:59 am

Good point daullaz. Also, who cares about player of the year awards? Andrus Jones wasn't as valuable to his team as Pujols and Derrek Lee, the stats show this, so I think that's what matters. Yes, the general public will see that Jones won the award so the public may not correctly know who the best ballplayer was last season, but I'm not sure the general public has correctly known anything for a long time.

What matters most is when this season is looked back upon, the stats will be surveyed, not the award winners. Pujols and Lee will stand out as the main NL achievers, and Jones will be seen as the NL leader in HRs, but not too much more.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:38 am

kentx12 wrote:
blankman wrote:
kentx12 wrote:
blankman wrote:Andruw Jones? You've got to be kidding me. The players themselves must be idots.



What I found more shocking than Andrew being 1st "which I agree with" is Lee being ranked ahead of Pujols for 2nd.


I won't get too much into the Jones thing, but he posted a downright pitiful .263 BA with an OBP that wasn't even top-40 in the NL. Heck, even with all the HR he hit, his SLG still finished 5th.


I agree the Avg. was awful and the obp wasnt great but what he did for the team when they needed him is enough IMO to get him the player of the year. The Braves would have been lucky to finish 3rd in the division if it werent for him.

And the Cubs would have been lucky to not be in the cellar without Derek Lee. Lee and Pujols OBP, SLG and AVG absolutely kill Jones. Lee is going to lose out just because his team sucks. Hopefully Pujols wins the MVP, because at least him and Lee are pretty close.
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