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Postby Half Massed » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:01 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Cleveland Steamers wrote:
dannyolbb wrote:It seems to me that if you run out a lineup like the one the Yankees have, you could have Jose Canseco in your rotation and you'd still win 90 games.

Sure, maybe the "worst" label was too much, but it's not nearly as ridiculous as saying he was one of the top 3 in the league this year.

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of managers who did a better job than Torre this year:

Terry Francona
Ozzie Guillen
Eric Wedge
Mike Scioscia
Ron Gardenhire
Mike Hargrove
Lou Pinella
Buck Showalter
John Gibbons


Completely agree with the above. Im pretty sure anyone with sense could manage the Yankees. The ultimate manager for the Yankees? How bout a guy with some baseball knowledge and a master in psychology because it seems that the Yankee manager needs to deal with meshing ego's rather than baseball.
Exactly, and that's why I think Torre is doing a good job when he is able to get this team to the playoffs. I'm not sure there is anyone more fit for the Yankees job than Torre at the moment, and I'm not sure that everyone with "sense" would have the same success as him in managing the Yankees.


Torre did a good job of helping with egos, but definitely nothing too special with actual managing. Maybe he should win Best Counselor award, but not a chance at Best Manager.
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Postby baseball6791 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:03 pm

Cleveland Steamers wrote:
dannyolbb wrote:It seems to me that if you run out a lineup like the one the Yankees have, you could have Jose Canseco in your rotation and you'd still win 90 games.

Sure, maybe the "worst" label was too much, but it's not nearly as ridiculous as saying he was one of the top 3 in the league this year.

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of managers who did a better job than Torre this year:

Terry Francona
Ozzie Guillen
Eric Wedge
Mike Scioscia
Ron Gardenhire
Mike Hargrove
Lou Pinella
Buck Showalter
John Gibbons


Completely agree with the above. Im pretty sure anyone with sense could manage the Yankees. The ultimate manager for the Yankees? How bout a guy with some baseball knowledge and a master in psychology because it seems that the Yankee manager needs to deal with meshing ego's rather than baseball.


As do I, Torre is a good manager, but a lot of what he does well is being able to manage a team full of overpaid divas.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:06 pm

Call me a homer if you please, but you guys are severely underrating the difficulty of managing a team like the Yankees. They are EXTREMELY poorly run. The entire pitching staff, starting to bullpen, was contructed terribly. The fact that they sucked, compounded with the fact that nearly all of them got hurt, and they had to be replaced by even suckier backups, is truly a credit to what Torre did with this team.

You can speak all you want about payrolls, but that guarentees nothing. If I pay Hideo Nomo $50 million dollars, it doesn't mean he's a $50 million dollar pitcher. That's what the Yankees have been doing for 5 years.

The fact that the Yankees underachieved this year is a discredit to their front office, not to Joe Torre. The fact that the team was ressurected during September, overcame an immense amount of injuries, and pulled together to tear through the home stretch is a credit to Joe Torre.

If you truly believe that anyone with a pulse could have managed the Yankees, then you don't know much about baseball, to be quite honest. I haven't even included all the crap that he has to deal with from Steinbrenner and the Tampa guys.
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Postby Cleveland Steamers » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:07 pm

Ego meshing or not, that doesnt make up for the fact that the Yankees have ARod, Sheffield, Jeter, Posada, Matsui, RJ, Mussina, Rivera, Pavano, and a productive Giambi. This team was built to win under any circumstance. While Torre does a decent job (at best) at keeping ego's in check, he is by no means a top manager. The Yankees barely made the playoffs with a $206 million payroll which is unacceptable. If I were a Yankee fan Id not only be mad but I'd be preparing myself for the beginning of the end. The Yankees will continue to go out and buy talent (which is usually a terrible move),while their older players are getting older. The Yankees have a few years before there players begin the downslide of their careers. It is nice to see Bernie and KBrown come off the books but Im sure Steinbrenner will just go out and buy the next 37 year old player that had/could have a good year. The bank has got to end at some point. Torre obviously isnt doing a great job meshing ego's if a team with that immense talent can hardly make the playoffs. ARod by himself gives an immense boost to a team, but when paired with Sheffield, Jeter, and Matsui...the offense should never end no matter if Rickie Ricardo himself was throwing for the Yanks. Torre should be on the hot seat for the job he has done.

A comparison:
Cleveland = 41,830,400
New York= 205,938,439

4.92 times the salary of Cleveland
:-o :-o :-o [/b]
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:09 pm

Half Massed wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Cleveland Steamers wrote:
dannyolbb wrote:It seems to me that if you run out a lineup like the one the Yankees have, you could have Jose Canseco in your rotation and you'd still win 90 games.

Sure, maybe the "worst" label was too much, but it's not nearly as ridiculous as saying he was one of the top 3 in the league this year.

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of managers who did a better job than Torre this year:

Terry Francona
Ozzie Guillen
Eric Wedge
Mike Scioscia
Ron Gardenhire
Mike Hargrove
Lou Pinella
Buck Showalter
John Gibbons


Completely agree with the above. Im pretty sure anyone with sense could manage the Yankees. The ultimate manager for the Yankees? How bout a guy with some baseball knowledge and a master in psychology because it seems that the Yankee manager needs to deal with meshing ego's rather than baseball.
Exactly, and that's why I think Torre is doing a good job when he is able to get this team to the playoffs. I'm not sure there is anyone more fit for the Yankees job than Torre at the moment, and I'm not sure that everyone with "sense" would have the same success as him in managing the Yankees.


Torre did a good job of helping with egos, but definitely nothing too special with actual managing. Maybe he should win Best Counselor award, but not a chance at Best Manager.

I never said he should win Manager of the Year, but he shouldn't get bashed for doing a very good job in a tough environment.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:10 pm

Cleveland Steamers wrote:Ego meshing or not, that doesnt make up for the fact that the Yankees have ARod, Sheffield, Jeter, Posada, Matsui, RJ, Mussina, Rivera, Pavano, and a productive Giambi. This team was built to win under any circumstance. While Torre does a decent job (at best) at keeping ego's in check, he is by no means a top manager. The Yankees barely made the playoffs with a $206 million payroll which is unacceptable. If I were a Yankee fan Id not only be mad but I'd be preparing myself for the beginning of the end. The Yankees will continue to go out and buy talent (which is usually a terrible move),while their older players are getting older. The Yankees have a few years before there players begin the downslide of their careers. It is nice to see Bernie and KBrown come off the books but Im sure Steinbrenner will just go out and buy the next 37 year old player that had/could have a good year. The bank has got to end at some point. Torre obviously isnt doing a great job meshing ego's if a team with that immense talent can hardly make the playoffs. ARod by himself gives an immense boost to a team, but when paired with Sheffield, Jeter, and Matsui...the offense should never end no matter if Rickie Ricardo himself was throwing for the Yanks. Torre should be on the hot seat for the job he has done.

A comparison:
Cleveland = 41,830,400
New York= 205,938,439

4.92 times the salary of Cleveland
:-o :-o :-o [/b]


Um...did you just mention Posada, Randy Johnson and Pavano among the names the Yankees have? Have you paid any attention at all this year?

And the payroll has nothing to do with Torre. Like I said, just because you spend $200 million dollars, does not mean the team has $200 million worth the talent. That is the front office's fault, not Torre. Torre can only work with what he has.
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:12 pm

Torre did not do a very good job, certainly not in comparison to numerous other AL managers.
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:14 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Cleveland Steamers wrote:Ego meshing or not, that doesnt make up for the fact that the Yankees have ARod, Sheffield, Jeter, Posada, Matsui, RJ, Mussina, Rivera, Pavano, and a productive Giambi. This team was built to win under any circumstance. While Torre does a decent job (at best) at keeping ego's in check, he is by no means a top manager. The Yankees barely made the playoffs with a $206 million payroll which is unacceptable. If I were a Yankee fan Id not only be mad but I'd be preparing myself for the beginning of the end. The Yankees will continue to go out and buy talent (which is usually a terrible move),while their older players are getting older. The Yankees have a few years before there players begin the downslide of their careers. It is nice to see Bernie and KBrown come off the books but Im sure Steinbrenner will just go out and buy the next 37 year old player that had/could have a good year. The bank has got to end at some point. Torre obviously isnt doing a great job meshing ego's if a team with that immense talent can hardly make the playoffs. ARod by himself gives an immense boost to a team, but when paired with Sheffield, Jeter, and Matsui...the offense should never end no matter if Rickie Ricardo himself was throwing for the Yanks. Torre should be on the hot seat for the job he has done.

A comparison:
Cleveland = 41,830,400
New York= 205,938,439

4.92 times the salary of Cleveland
:-o :-o :-o [/b]


Um...did you just mention Posada, Randy Johnson and Pavano among the names the Yankees have? Have you paid any attention at all this year?

And the payroll has nothing to do with Torre. Like I said, just because you spend $200 million dollars, does not mean the team has $200 million worth the talent. That is the front office's fault, not Torre. Torre can only work with what he has.

Ok, he has, according to you Yankee fans, the best player in baseball, the best closer in baseball, one of the best shortstops in baseball, the best Japanese player in baseball, the comeback player of the year, the AL rookie of the year, etc.

Torre, according to what you've said before, has loads to work with.
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Postby Cleveland Steamers » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:20 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:Um...did you just mention Posada, Randy Johnson and Pavano among the names the Yankees have? Have you paid any attention at all this year?

And the payroll has nothing to do with Torre. Like I said, just because you spend $200 million dollars, does not mean the team has $200 million worth the talent. That is the front office's fault, not Torre. Torre can only work with what he has.


What do you mean? The Yankees dont have RJ, Posada, or Pavano? Im pretty sure Posada played 142 games and had over 470 at bats (more than Varitek or Pierzynski). Catchers get days off. Just because Posada didnt catch RJ doesnt mean they dont "have" Posada. RJohnson threw 225 innings. How many innings must he throw to qualify as a Yankee? You have something with Pavano who only threw 100 innings of bad baseball. The Yankees still "had" him. Maybe the Yankees need to hire a new pitching coach to maintain these seemingly below average arms. With Jaret Wright and Pavano coming in and throwing terrible then becoming and remaining injured, the pitching coach should have some blame. This doesnt take into account the games that RJ got shelled for have a quirk in his mechanics tipped his pitches. The blame can go a thousand ways for the Yankees, and it shouldnt leave out Torre or any part of the coaching staff.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:23 pm

Cleveland Steamers wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Um...did you just mention Posada, Randy Johnson and Pavano among the names the Yankees have? Have you paid any attention at all this year?

And the payroll has nothing to do with Torre. Like I said, just because you spend $200 million dollars, does not mean the team has $200 million worth the talent. That is the front office's fault, not Torre. Torre can only work with what he has.


What do you mean? The Yankees dont have RJ, Posada, or Pavano? Im pretty sure Posada played 142 games and had over 470 at bats (more than Varitek or Pierzynski). Catchers get days off. Just because Posada didnt catch RJ doesnt mean they dont "have" Posada. RJohnson threw 225 innings. How many innings must he throw to qualify as a Yankee? You have something with Pavano who only threw 100 innings of bad baseball. The Yankees still "had" him. Maybe the Yankees need to hire a new pitching coach to maintain these seemingly below average arms. With Jaret Wright and Pavano coming in and throwing terrible then becoming and remaining injured, the pitching coach should have some blame. This doesnt take into account the games that RJ got shelled for have a quirk in his mechanics tipped his pitches. The blame can go a thousand ways for the Yankees, and it shouldnt leave out Torre or any part of the coaching staff.


8-o

Are you serious? You couldn't understand what I was saying?


Ok, forget it. I'm out.
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