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Postby davidmarver » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:19 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Cleveland Steamers wrote: Pitching or no pitching, it doesnt take much of a manager to coach a team made of top players.

I disagree, I think coaching a team made up of top players like the Yankees would be extremely hard on any manager. Just think about how tough it would be to get the right team chemistry.

Oh please...try building chemistry on a team that's perenially bad.

The whole chemistry-building aspect is way overblown, especially when the nucleus of the Yankees has been intact for as long as it has.

When you do as little with as much talent as Torre has at his disposal you deserve Worst Manager of the Year.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:26 pm

davidmarver wrote:When you do as little with as much talent as Torre has at his disposal you deserve Worst Manager of the Year.


Moronic Statement of the Year.
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Postby Red Stripe » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:26 pm

Does anybody else think this list looks as if the TSN guys didn't even watch the 2nd half?
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Postby dannyolbb » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:38 pm

davidmarver wrote:When you do as little with as much talent as Torre has at his disposal you deserve Worst Manager of the Year.


Brilliant statement of the year.

Anyone who thinks that a manager who led an underachieving 200 million dollar team to the playoffs deserves an award before a manager who led a wildly overachieving team to the brink of the playoffs is crazy. Granted, the A's are a top-down team, but Macha followed the Hippocratic Oath, which is my litmus test for a manager - Do No Harm.

Torre, on the other hand, did a fine job as usual, but when you outspend most of the competition by a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 ratio, you expect more. And Torre didn't deliver. The only trophy he'll get this year is the "most times caught picking his nose on camera" award.
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:42 pm

davidmarver wrote:Oh please...try building chemistry on a team that's perenially bad.
The whole chemistry-building aspect is way overblown, especially when the nucleus of the Yankees has been intact for as long as it has.

I don't think it's overblown at all, especially considering their best hitters (ARod/Sheff) have only been their 2 years, and their ace started his first season in New York this year. I'm really not sure how many managers could even achieve success with a team like that, many would not even know how to manage the players on that team.
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:44 pm

Red Stripe wrote:Does anybody else think this list looks as if the TSN guys didn't even watch the 2nd half?

Yeah, I got that feeling too, but Halladay didn't get any votes.

Edit: It was the players and managers that voted, not the TSN guys. Though, they probably had to survey all of them in August or something.
Last edited by mweir145 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:45 pm

dannyolbb wrote:
davidmarver wrote:When you do as little with as much talent as Torre has at his disposal you deserve Worst Manager of the Year.


Brilliant statement of the year.

Anyone who thinks that a manager who led an underachieving 200 million dollar team to the playoffs deserves an award before a manager who led a wildly overachieving team to the brink of the playoffs is crazy. Granted, the A's are a top-down team, but Macha followed the Hippocratic Oath, which is my litmus test for a manager - Do No Harm.

Torre, on the other hand, did a fine job as usual, but when you outspend most of the competition by a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 ratio, you expect more. And Torre didn't deliver. The only trophy he'll get this year is the "most times caught picking his nose on camera" award.


I think you're confusing the manager with the front office. The front office should recieve worst of the year. NOT Joe Torre. He doesn't sign the players. I can guarentee you he didn't ask for Jaret Wright or Kevin Brown.

Joe has to deal with what he's given. The Yankees may spend $200 million dollars, but let's be honest...this is not a $200 million dollar roster. 75% of the team is overpaid. They have tremendous talent, but not the talent a $200 million dollar team should supply.

Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright, Carl Pavano, Mike Mussina and Chien-Ming Wang were all hurt during the season. Not all of them are superstars, but they are compared to their replacements...guys like Tim Redding, Darrell May, Sean Henn, Tanyon Sturtze, Al Leiter, etc.

To say that Joe Torre deserves "Worst Manager of the Year" when he managed through nearly an entire month with only 2 healthy starting pitchers, Randy Johnson (if he even was 100%, many believe he wasn't) and Mussina, is idiotic. Joe Torre did his best managing job in 2005. He cannot be blamed for the players he was given. If you think anything else, you're simply not paying attention.
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Postby dannyolbb » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:51 pm

It seems to me that if you run out a lineup like the one the Yankees have, you could have Jose Canseco in your rotation and you'd still win 90 games.

Sure, maybe the "worst" label was too much, but it's not nearly as ridiculous as saying he was one of the top 3 in the league this year.

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of managers who did a better job than Torre this year:

Terry Francona
Ozzie Guillen
Eric Wedge
Mike Scioscia
Ron Gardenhire
Mike Hargrove
Lou Pinella
Buck Showalter
John Gibbons
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Postby Cleveland Steamers » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:30 pm

dannyolbb wrote:It seems to me that if you run out a lineup like the one the Yankees have, you could have Jose Canseco in your rotation and you'd still win 90 games.

Sure, maybe the "worst" label was too much, but it's not nearly as ridiculous as saying he was one of the top 3 in the league this year.

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of managers who did a better job than Torre this year:

Terry Francona
Ozzie Guillen
Eric Wedge
Mike Scioscia
Ron Gardenhire
Mike Hargrove
Lou Pinella
Buck Showalter
John Gibbons


Completely agree with the above. Im pretty sure anyone with sense could manage the Yankees. The ultimate manager for the Yankees? How bout a guy with some baseball knowledge and a master in psychology because it seems that the Yankee manager needs to deal with meshing ego's rather than baseball.
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:35 pm

Cleveland Steamers wrote:
dannyolbb wrote:It seems to me that if you run out a lineup like the one the Yankees have, you could have Jose Canseco in your rotation and you'd still win 90 games.

Sure, maybe the "worst" label was too much, but it's not nearly as ridiculous as saying he was one of the top 3 in the league this year.

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of managers who did a better job than Torre this year:

Terry Francona
Ozzie Guillen
Eric Wedge
Mike Scioscia
Ron Gardenhire
Mike Hargrove
Lou Pinella
Buck Showalter
John Gibbons


Completely agree with the above. Im pretty sure anyone with sense could manage the Yankees. The ultimate manager for the Yankees? How bout a guy with some baseball knowledge and a master in psychology because it seems that the Yankee manager needs to deal with meshing ego's rather than baseball.
Exactly, and that's why I think Torre is doing a good job when he is able to get this team to the playoffs. I'm not sure there is anyone more fit for the Yankees job than Torre at the moment, and I'm not sure that everyone with "sense" would have the same success as him in managing the Yankees.
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