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Postby chadlincoln » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:33 pm

sportsjerk wrote:I could agree with the statement that Nolan Ryan was the best strikeout pitcher, but best overall, no.

;-D
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Postby bigh0rt » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:10 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:Sure, I'm not saying that stats are completely useless. But if you are asking me to compare Mickey Welch to Walter Johnson and I happened to be otherwise occupied in 1900 what good is my vote - can't you just use a computer program to compare stats and tell us who was better?

My only point was that there is no use for a vote for guys that we could not have possibly seen play if it turns out to be just a mathematical exercise.

Well not everyone values every stat in the same way and which stats do you use? Some people think Nolan Ryan is the best pitcher ever because of the K's and no hitters while others say the best pitcher ever wouldn't walk so many batters. Even with the math and numbers involved peoples opinions differ greatly. Who is the greatest 2B? Hornsby, Morgan, Collins?


Sweet Lou ;-D
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:51 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Sweet Lou ;-D
Sorry but Whitaker didn't even make the ballot.
http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/foru ... hp?t=24792
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Postby Tavish » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:37 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:You know I just missed seeing Matthewson play, couldn't stay awake for the 1911 WS.

I almost made it down to see Pete Alexander and Tris Speaker in 1926.

Seriously, how can we vote on these guys - all that we see are their stats and we hear their anecdotes. There is no way that we could compare Pete Alexander to Nolan Ryan, no way that we can know how good Speaker was in the field.

These popularity contests are worthless IMO.


I'll make it easy for you to see the incompetence of the average fan and reduce the comparison.

8. Ken Griffey Jr., 645,389
18. Barry Bonds, 173,279

This "poll" was done in 1999. Even before the mass Bonds hate began and the before the injury riddled Griffey started.

<pre>Player From To Yrs G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS OPS+
Barry Bonds 1986-1999 14 2000 6976 1455 2010 423 65 445 1299 1430 1112 .288 .409 .559 460 132 163
Ken Griffey 1989-1999 11 1535 5832 1063 1742 320 30 398 1152 747 984 .299 .380 .569 167 60 148</pre>

Griffey 10 time AS, 1 MVP Award, 10 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Slugger Awards, led the league in:
SLG 1 time
Runs 1 time
TB 2 times
HRs 4 times
RBI 1 time

Bonds 8 time AS, 3 MVP Awards, 8 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Slugger Awards, was the second member of the 40-40 club, led the league in:
SLG 3 times
OBP 4 times
OPS 5 times
Runs 1 time
TB 1 time
HR 1 time
RBI 1 time

What does all that mean to the average fan? It means Griffey gets 4X the number of votes. Fans love SportsCenter.
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:47 pm

Well, Hootie, the Eckstein/Jeter comparison isn't a laugher, at least for this season.

Eckstein led all MLB SS in Win Shares with 28, Derek had 26...Eckstein beat Jeter at the plate by 1 and in the field by 1.

They both created the same amount of runs (106) but Eckstein creates more a game (6.4) than Jeter (6.3).

Jeter's VORP does, however, destroy Eckstein's, but the two are still closer than the laugher you imply (at least for this season).
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Postby DK » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:34 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:If Ozzie Smith belongs in the hall, so does every player with an OPS over 650...i.e., just about everyone.


Every time I've seen you post this I've given you a rebuttal proving you wrong. You've never had the "resolve" to say anything more on the subject.

And yet, you continue to say the same thing, although every other piece of evidence indicates that he in fact IS a HoFer.
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Postby Steve-o » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:42 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Tavish wrote:Its not even just a few people who are clueless. The All-Century voting taught me that very fast.

Pitchers

1. Nolan Ryan, 992,040 votes
6. Walter Johnson, 479,279 votes
14. Christy Mathewson, 249,747 votes
16. Grover Cleveland Alexander, 151,255 votes


OF
8. Ken Griffey Jr., 645,389
9. Pete Rose, 629,742
18. Barry Bonds, 173,279
21. Tris Speaker, 84,461

3B
2. Brooks Robinson, 761,700
4. Eddie Mathews, 174,529


You know I just missed seeing Matthewson play, couldn't stay awake for the 1911 WS.

I almost made it down to see Pete Alexander and Tris Speaker in 1926.

Seriously, how can we vote on these guys - all that we see are their stats and we hear their anecdotes. There is no way that we could compare Pete Alexander to Nolan Ryan, no way that we can know how good Speaker was in the field.

These popularity contests are worthless IMO.


Exactly. They are far, far too weighted towards the modern day. It is basically just what people remember.
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