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ARod vs Ortiz

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Postby nsulham » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:04 pm

Guess that makes me a bad person then.

If you asked him about it his likely response would be that it's not an excuse, so all I was saying was anyone who's going to use that story as an excuse for his poor play shouldn't, because you know he's not going to.
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Postby blankman » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:09 pm

nsulham wrote:Guess that makes me a bad person then.

If you asked him about it his likely response would be that it's not an excuse, so all I was saying was anyone who's going to use that story as an excuse for his poor play shouldn't, because you know he's not going to.


What do you expect him to say?

Truth or not, very few people in his position would say its an excuse.
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Postby nsulham » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:11 pm

blankman wrote:
nsulham wrote:Guess that makes me a bad person then.

If you asked him about it his likely response would be that it's not an excuse, so all I was saying was anyone who's going to use that story as an excuse for his poor play shouldn't, because you know he's not going to.


What do you expect him to say?

Truth or not, very few people in his position would say its an excuse.


Well alrighty then.
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Postby nuggets » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:14 pm

blankman wrote:Just because someone else did something superhuman like Favre did gives you no right to expect that of anyone else.


Is Rodriguez not supposed to be on that same plane of superstar, superhuman player? From everything I know about what his fans and the rest of baseball believe, Alex Rodriguez is.
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:05 pm

Personally, I don't want to sound insensitive but maybe I will. Either way, that's not my intention. If A-Rod wanted to take some time off to grieve, I would have completely understood. He didn't. He continued to play. At that point, it is up to him to do the best that he can. He also went 4-5 the next day in Boston.

I haven't and I won't bash A-Rod because, without him, there was no postseason in the 1st place. I just think that the moment that he took the field, he was basically saying that he was good to go.
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Postby NZF » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:19 pm

Lofunzo wrote: He also went 4-5 the next day in Boston.



Yeah he must have been absolutely devastated ;-7

It's very matter of fact to me. If A-Rod WAS that effected by the death of his "uncle" then he did his team a major dis-service by attempting to play. So he's at fault either way.

Anyway, elite sports people often use that as motivation. Favre and Clemens are two that quickly come to mind.

I also find it very hard to believe that if A-Rod had such a close bond that he wouldn't even attempt to be present at the funeral. Even if that meant late night flights and little sleep.

Basically mummy is attempting to come to the rescue of her darling precious boy Alex, who all those naughty people are being so mean to.
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Postby davidmarver » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:21 pm

blankman wrote:Who's looking for a pass?

It sure as hell isn't Alex Rodriguez, who never said a word about the whole thing, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Frankly, its being an insensitive **** to say what you just said. I'd like to see what you have to say about going to work the next day and for the next two weeks after your father (because that's who he was to Alex) died.

Just because someone else did something superhuman like Favre did gives you no right to expect that of anyone else.

Just sickening.

Get real. If it bothered ARod and distracted him from playing he should have told Torre to have someone play for him. That would have been the most team-oriented thing he could have done.

And no, we aren't being insensitive ****s by saying it's not an excuse. It's horrible it happened, but ARod, knowing it would be a distraction, should have let someone else play.
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Postby bigken117 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:06 pm

I agree. The great ones rise above extreme circumstances. You know he won't use it as an excuse, but if he couldn't concentrate on the field, then he did an injustice to his team. Not that the death of someone close is something that can just slip your mind, but the aforementioned examples of Favre and Clemens, those guys were brilliant in the wake of personal tragedy. They used it as inspiration when they had every right to take a significant amount personal time off.
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:33 pm

bigken117 wrote:I agree. The great ones rise above extreme circumstances. You know he won't use it as an excuse, but if he couldn't concentrate on the field, then he did an injustice to his team. Not that the death of someone close is something that can just slip your mind, but the aforementioned examples of Favre and Clemens, those guys were brilliant in the wake of personal tragedy. They used it as inspiration when they had every right to take a significant amount personal time off.


That's not fair, either. You can't say that since Clemens and Favre rose to the occasion, A-Rod should have as well. Those 2 did and A-Rod didn't. It's not a knock against A-Rod. My entire point was that if you are sound enough emotionally to take the field, leave it at that. If you aren't, then don't play. It's also not right to compare guys that play 1 game against someone playing in 5 straight.
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Postby Strasil42 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:37 pm

davidmarver wrote:My posts in this thread:
davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:Now all Ortiz has is RBI and we all know about the team dependency of that statistic.

Yep, which is why ARod should actually be beating Ortiz in RBI.

Arod had 24 more at bats with runners in scoring position than Ortiz.

50.4% of Arod's at bats came with runners on. 48.1% of Ortiz's at bats came with runners on.

The fact Ortiz has this many more RBIs than Alex shows clear dominance with RISP and runners on. You don't have to believe in clutch...you can call it dumb luck all you want; it still happened, though, and that should be taken into consideration.


davidmarver wrote:I'm not trying to base the MVP on 19 games, but at some point there needs to be a deciding factor.

To expand on the NYY/BOS splits (they looked a little condensed to me):
ARod:19-70 (.271), 13 runs, 6 hr, 11 rbi, 9/14 BB/K.
Ortiz:21-71 (.296), 16 runs, 5 hr, 19 rbi, 11/15 BB/K.

Sure, those numbers are still pretty close, but at some point there has to be a make/break decision made and this was it for me.


davidmarver wrote:Arod was 10th for AL 3b in Fielding Win Shares. The fact he played all 162 games and only finished 10th in a cumulative statistic like WS makes me think ARod's below-average for a 3b defensively.

As a result, Giambi has a higher WSP (playing time-influenced) than ARod.

The two are so close statistically it really makes it difficult to choose a winner, but I would vote for Ortiz, simply because he did better against the Yankees than ARod did the Red Sox. Those were their respective teams most important opponent, so there's that.


Yours posts in this thread.

Strasil42 wrote:Great posts hootie.


Strasil42 wrote:Since 2000 only 4 players have finished first in homers and won the mvp, while 6 have not led the race and won it.

The last 4 out of 5 AL MVP's did not lead their league in home runs.

So why do you think homeruns play such a big role in the MVP race? Especially since ARod plays in the AL.


Strasil42 wrote:How often are voters changed??

Sorry i was just going with recent history because i figured those who voted for mvp back in 1931 might be dead or no longer voting. Maybe home runs was the deciding factor back then, but considering that in the AL the last 4 out of 5 years the leader in homeruns wasn't MVP, I don't think homers are entirely what decide the MVP.

And you really think Arod will win the MVP award this year because he managed to hit exactly ONE more homer?? I also dont agree with you that if Ortiz hit 49 home runs he would have been MVP. Thats pretty ridicioulous.

Also you dont think Ajones is being considered because he pretty much carried the team on his back while chipper was hurt?


Strasil42 wrote:Probably the funniest post ive read in a long time. Thanks for a good laugh.


To quote your fellow Yankees fan...
blankman wrote:Thanks for the insight


Haha, almost even better than the one before.

Thats probably the most biased statement ive ever read. You want ortiz to get the award because he had exactly 2 more hits in the situation that you hand pick to prove your point.

Thanks for the insight.
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