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ARod vs Ortiz

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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:25 am

This is off thread, but to any old timers, did NYY fans bash Joe D.? Why? In his 10 post seasons, NYY won 9 times, but not because of Joe. In 199 career post season abs, Joe D. hit .271 (career .325), his OPS was a ugly .760 (.977 career).

And where are all the Vlad choke threads? Vlad is now 3-28 (.107) career post season.

Did the Boston fans call Teddy Williams Teddy choke? He's a career 5-25 post season.

How about SF fans calling Willie choke Mays?

89 post season abs, .247 avg. .660 OPS.

Arod buries all these greats, yet because of a 2-15, Arod is a choke artist.

Nuggets, sure the runners on matters some. Ortiz was better in rbi chances. I'm not much into the 2 out stuff. A rbi with none or 1 out, count the same, plus the sample size on the close + late, and 2 outs, are rather small.
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Postby curious_george_43545 » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:09 am

wow, just read through this entire thread. Very informative. Hootie makes excellent points ;-D and despite a strong dislike for ARod, I think you can't make any strong arguments agaisnt him. Arod wins in almost every stat. Ortiz was better with runners is scoring position and in some situational stats, like his 2005 extra innings stats where he was 2 for 4 with 2 homeruns and 4 RBI's compared to Arod's 1 for 4 with 2 k's, but that doesn't have nearly as big as an effect over a 162 game span than Arod's defense (even if it is overated) and baserunning.

One interesting stat was that Arod was better then Ortiz with the bases loaded. ARod hit .438 with 20 RBI's while striking out only twice compared to Ortiz's "clutch" .400 and 20 RBI's with 3 K's. Also ARod's OBP with the bases loaded was .571 8-o
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Postby wrveres » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:54 pm

I can't figure out why you guys keep having this discussion ..

the awnser is and will always be ..

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Until Big Papi gets himself fitted for a Big Glove ..
Thats the way it will stand..

Besides, wouldn't you guys rather have a real discussion ..

Like, oh I don't know.

Who is the better closer.
Hells Bells or Sandman :-°
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Postby Trot Nixon » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:28 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Trot Nixon wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
A-Rod is a better postseason hitter than Ortiz is.
Ya you're right, A-Rod hit the series ending home run to move on passed the Angels, the game 4 home run that brought on a game 5 and a game 5 single that brought game 6...ya A-Rod is a better post season hitter


At best they are even:

Alex Rodriguez:
BA- .305
OPS- .935

David Ortiz:
BA- .301
OPS- .935
This is kinda late in responding to this but I guess what I meant to say is that he is more clutch than A-Rod was
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There is such a thing called clutch and David Ortiz is the modern day definition of it
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:40 pm

Trot Nixon wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Trot Nixon wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
A-Rod is a better postseason hitter than Ortiz is.
Ya you're right, A-Rod hit the series ending home run to move on passed the Angels, the game 4 home run that brought on a game 5 and a game 5 single that brought game 6...ya A-Rod is a better post season hitter


At best they are even:

Alex Rodriguez:
BA- .305
OPS- .935

David Ortiz:
BA- .301
OPS- .935
This is kinda late in responding to this but I guess what I meant to say is that he is more clutch than A-Rod was


Well that isn't what you said. I said A-Rod was just as good or better in the postseason, and then you said he wasn't. And it's not always wise to base who you think is clutch and who isn't on your memory. Contrary to what davidmarver thinks, memories aren't what make a player clutch. The numbers tell the story.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:53 pm

wrveres wrote:Besides, wouldn't y
you guys rather have a real discussion ..

Like, oh I don't know.

Who is the better closer.
Hells Bells or Sandman :-°


ACDC in their prime silly, and Metallica over the long haul. :-D
What was Ecks song, cause he was the man. ;-)
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Postby Lofunzo » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:56 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
wrveres wrote:Besides, wouldn't y
you guys rather have a real discussion ..

Like, oh I don't know.

Who is the better closer.
Hells Bells or Sandman :-°


ACDC in their prime silly, and Metallica over the long haul. :-D
What was Ecks song, cause he was the man. ;-)


I think that it was "I Drink Alone" by Thorogood.
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Postby blankman » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:32 pm

Here's something to think about, A-Rod postseason bashers

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/news/story?id=2193739

Updated: Oct. 17, 2005, 2:38 AM ET
A-Rod's mom: Uncle's death affected performance
Associated Press

SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic -- Alex Rodriguez played poorly in the Yankees' American League Division Series loss in part because he was saddened by the death of the uncle who raised him, the slugger's mother said in an interview published in a local newspaper Sunday.

Lourdes Navarro said her son kept the Sept. 30 death of his uncle to himself because he was committed to helping his team win.

"I think he should speak with the team and tell them that his uncle, who was like his father because he raised him since he was 8, died in a hospital in Miami," Navarro told Listin daily newspaper.

Navarro didn't say what caused the death of Augusto Bolivar Navarro, who was her last surviving brother.

Rodriquez was hitless in last Monday's 5-3 loss to the Anaheim Angels that sent the Yankees home for the year, and finished the five-game series with no RBI and a .133 batting average.

"I know how much he suffered from the death of his uncle without being able to do anything, from listening to me crying and not being able to be there," she said, suggesting some New York fans were being unfair to her son.

"I would like ... for the baseball fans to know that my son is a great human being, that they're seeing a human and not a robot, that he can fail, especially when there are reasons like this," she said.

Navarro said Rodriguez spoke with his uncle for three hours by phone the day before he died.

"We buried him in Santo Domingo ... [Rodriguez] didn't come because of the high sense of responsibility that Alex has for his work," she said.

Rodriguez, baseball's only $25 million-a-year player, is a strong MVP candidate after batting .321 during the regular season with 48 homers and 130 RBI.
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Postby nsulham » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:38 pm

That's a sad story about A-Rod's uncle but the fact remains that you still have to perform on the field under any circumstances.

Different sport but take Favre a few years back---his father dies on a Friday I believe it was, and Brett goes to Oakland the following Monday night and turns in one of the greatest performances of his career.

Situations like those that happened to A-Rod are tragic, yes, but now that this story has to come to light you can't expect everybody to now turn around and say "Oh, well we didn't know about this until now....you get a pass Alex."
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Postby blankman » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:58 pm

Who's looking for a pass?

It sure as hell isn't Alex Rodriguez, who never said a word about the whole thing, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Frankly, its being an insensitive **** to say what you just said. I'd like to see what you have to say about going to work the next day and for the next two weeks after your father (because that's who he was to Alex) died.

Just because someone else did something superhuman like Favre did gives you no right to expect that of anyone else.

Just sickening.
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