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ARod vs Ortiz

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ARod vs Ortiz

Postby bigken117 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:54 pm

Yankees fans- were you comfortable with ARod up with Jeter on 1st in the 9th last night?
Or would you have felt better if Ortiz was up there?
I've talked to a couple Yankees fans, and read it elsewhere online that they'd rather have Ortiz in that situation.

Now I know that ARod will probably win MVP because of his "defense" (I saw two soft errors in the past week, one on a Damon grounder and that one in the DS) but when it's time to come through for your team, that's what Papi does. That's what an MVP is. If you weren't comfortable when ARod was up there, how can you say he deserves it?

I'm not trying to turn this into yet another Yankees/Sox thread. I'm trying to point out the definition of a Most Valuable Player. And to show that Ortiz will get jobbed when MVP results are announced.

Mods, please forgive me if this had already been started. Feel free to lock if necessary.

And for what it's worth NY fans, to show I'm not totally bashing the Yanks, I think Rivera should come in second for MVP, he should at least win the Cy Young. I hate the Yankees and all, but I can give respect where it's due. You guys would have been lost w/o him.
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Postby blankman » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:12 pm

Voting is done before the postseason. Its a regular season award.

Ortiz leads his competitor in only RBI, BB and 2B. He didn't outslug, get on base more, run the bases better, play better defense, create more runs or do anything measurable better than his competitor for the award. He finished 5th in Win Shares, 6 back of the leader. He's just not the AL MVP, the best player in the AL, this year.
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Postby bigken117 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:13 pm

blankman wrote:Voting is done before the postseason. Its a regular season award.

Ortiz leads his competitor in only RBI, BB and 2B. He didn't outslug, get on base more, run the bases better, play better defense or do anything measurable better than his competitor for the award. He finished 5th in Win Shares, 6 back of the leader. He's just not the AL MVP, the best player in the AL, this year.


I know what is. I didn't say anything to the contrary. You didn't answer my question. Who would you rather have up at that point of your season?
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:15 pm

If I voted after the regular season, I'd vote for A-Rod. He had the better numbers and played great defense, as well as good baserunning.

If I voted after the postseason, I'd give it to Ortiz. Rodriguez was terrible. Performances like that really make you appreciate what Ortiz does. There's something to be said for a guy who can consistently come through in clutch situations, and A-Rod certainly proved how valuable he is during those times. :-P
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Postby blankman » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:21 pm

bigken117 wrote:
blankman wrote:Voting is done before the postseason. Its a regular season award.

Ortiz leads his competitor in only RBI, BB and 2B. He didn't outslug, get on base more, run the bases better, play better defense or do anything measurable better than his competitor for the award. He finished 5th in Win Shares, 6 back of the leader. He's just not the AL MVP, the best player in the AL, this year.


I know what is. I didn't say anything to the contrary. You didn't answer my question. Who would you rather have up at that point of your season?


The point is, that's got nothing to do with what the award is about. The only sane way to award it is to the player who had the best season. I'd rather have Jeter up in a big spot than a lot of great hitters, but does that make him the MVP? Surely it doesn't.
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Postby RynMan » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:23 pm

Rodriguez. I don't care if Papi came up big in tight situations. So did Marco Scutaro. Rodriguez was the most valuable player over 162 games...he would make any team he was on better than any other player could.
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Postby bigken117 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:29 pm

blankman wrote:The point is, that's got nothing to do with what the award is about. The only sane way to award it is to the player who had the best season. I'd rather have Jeter up in a big spot than a lot of great hitters, but does that make him the MVP? Surely it doesn't.


Again you don't answer the question, and I know what you're going to say anyways. The question is not "who deserves MVP?" it's "Did you feel good with ARod in that spot or would you rather have Ortiz?"


rynman wrote:Rodriguez. I don't care if Papi came up big in tight situations. So did Marco Scutaro. Rodriguez was the most valuable player over 162 games...he would make any team he was on better than any other player could.


Scutaro hit 20 HR that either ties or gave his team the lead? :-b
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:34 pm

RynMan wrote:Rodriguez. I don't care if Papi came up big in tight situations. So did Marco Scutaro. Rodriguez was the most valuable player over 162 games...he would make any team he was on better than any other player could.


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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:44 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:If I voted after the regular season, I'd vote for A-Rod. He had the better numbers and played great defense, as well as good baserunning.

If I voted after the postseason, I'd give it to Ortiz. Rodriguez was terrible. Performances like that really make you appreciate what Ortiz does. There's something to be said for a guy who can consistently come through in clutch situations, and A-Rod certainly proved how valuable he is during those times. :-P


BB, you are a NYY fan, you should know better. Let's look at arod's and Ortiz career post season stats entering this year.

Avg.

Arod .330
Ortiz .298

OBA

Arod .395
Ortiz .387

Slugging %

Arod .583
Ortiz .534

OPS

Arod .978
Ortiz .921

Arod has one bad post season, and NYY fans bash him? In 6 post season series including this year, he has hit .300 in 4 of the 6. Last year as a NYY in 50 abs, he hit .330 with 3 hrs and 8 rbis. How quickly they forget. Bonds, Ted Williams, Mays, and yes even Jeter, have had a bad post season.

Jeter
1998 ALDS .111 avg.
1998 ALCS .200
2000 ALDS .211
2001 ALCS .118
2001 World Series .148
2003 ALCS .233
2004 ALCS .200

But nobody ever gets on Jeter, Mr. clutch. Entering this year, Arod was better in avg, oba, slugging %. Arod and Bonds are the 2 most unfairly persecuted players in MLB by far.
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Postby blankman » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:46 pm

bigken117 wrote:
blankman wrote:The point is, that's got nothing to do with what the award is about. The only sane way to award it is to the player who had the best season. I'd rather have Jeter up in a big spot than a lot of great hitters, but does that make him the MVP? Surely it doesn't.


Again you don't answer the question, and I know what you're going to say anyways. The question is not "who deserves MVP?" it's "Did you feel good with ARod in that spot or would you rather have Ortiz?"


Well hindsight's 20/20 and he did GIDP so its a stupid question. You'd rather have any other result.

The question IS who deserves MVP, because you are

trying to point out the definition of a Most Valuable Player. And to show that Ortiz will get jobbed when MVP results are announced.


You are using that thought process as your basis for backing Ortiz as the MVP. So don't bs everyone about what the point of it is.
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