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Discussion: Overranked in '06?

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Postby Yoda » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:32 pm

Yin_Xu88 wrote:
pokerplaya wrote:I agree with you that Beltran should definitely improve, and that he will put up some decent numbers.

That said, A-Rod's 2004, .286, 36HR's, 106RBI's is far from sucking.


I was just saying that compared to what Arod is capable off , those numbers werent very good.


Find me a league where .286, 36 HR, 106 RBI, 28 SB, 112 R from a SS/3B (since he was still SS eligible from 03) is considered not very good by any standard incl. Arod's.

I don't seem to recall too many 30-30 players let alone 20-20 players at SS in history. :-?
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Postby Yin_Xu88 » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:44 pm

Yoda wrote:
Yin_Xu88 wrote:
pokerplaya wrote:I agree with you that Beltran should definitely improve, and that he will put up some decent numbers.

That said, A-Rod's 2004, .286, 36HR's, 106RBI's is far from sucking.


I was just saying that compared to what Arod is capable off , those numbers werent very good.


Find me a league where .286, 36 HR, 106 RBI, 28 SB, 112 R from a SS/3B (since he was still SS eligible from 03) is considered not very good by any standard incl. Arod's.

I don't seem to recall too many 30-30 players let alone 20-20 players at SS in history. :-?


maybe I exaggerated in saying Arods numbers in 2004 sucked. But that wasnt even the point of my argument. I was using Arod as an example of a player whoes numbers fell below career norms his 1st year in NY.
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Postby George_Foreman » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:20 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:Helton...no roids=no power

God, come off it already.

here's helton's by-month splits:
Code: Select all
          G    R    HR    RBI    BB    AVG     OBP     SLG     OPS
April     21   12   1     9      15    0.267   0.402   0.373   0.776
May       28   14   4     10     22    0.253   0.388   0.465   0.853
June      26   10   1     12     17    0.274   0.389   0.389   0.779
July      21   12   5     12     11    0.400   0.494   0.667   1.161
August    20   15   4     15     13    0.357   0.465   0.657   1.122
September 26   27   4     19     25    0.386   0.526   0.670   1.197
October   2    2    1     2      3     0.429   0.600   0.857   1.457


what's this? when he wasn't hurt (say, July forward) he hit 14 homers in 69 games, which comes to 32 home runs when you take that over 162 games? my god! that, along with his 1.100 OPS are RIGHT IN LINE with his numbers from the past few years! STUNNING!!!

Code: Select all
      G      R      HR    RBI    K    AVG     OBP     SLG     OPS 
2003   160   135    33    117    72   0.358   0.458   0.630   1.088
2004   154   115    32    96     72   0.347   0.469   0.620   1.088



give it up, man. just because someone has an off-year doesn't mean they use steroids. it seems like every other post you're claiming steroids as the cause of someone's breakout year or someone else's down year. well please, get over it. steroids are not the root cause of every variation in the game of baseball. in this case, helton was hurt early on and it took him a while to get back in to form.

and moreover, helton should be on everyone's UNDERrated list, not the overrated one. if you're lucky, you'll be able to get him in the second round, and even if his surrounding cast hasn't improved much, he'll still be a good value with 100/100/.330/30
Last edited by George_Foreman on Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby davidmarver » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:21 pm

Yoda wrote:
Yin_Xu88 wrote:
pokerplaya wrote:I agree with you that Beltran should definitely improve, and that he will put up some decent numbers.

That said, A-Rod's 2004, .286, 36HR's, 106RBI's is far from sucking.


I was just saying that compared to what Arod is capable off , those numbers werent very good.


Find me a league where .286, 36 HR, 106 RBI, 28 SB, 112 R from a SS/3B (since he was still SS eligible from 03) is considered not very good by any standard incl. Arod's.

I don't seem to recall too many 30-30 players let alone 20-20 players at SS in history. :-?

Larkin is the only one besides ARod to post a 30/30 shortstop season; I know that. Howard Johnson did it at third a few times...I'm not sure if anyone else has. Either way, 30/30 seasons out of the left-side of the infield are few and far between.
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Postby Yoda » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:25 pm

Yin_Xu88 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Yin_Xu88 wrote:
pokerplaya wrote:I agree with you that Beltran should definitely improve, and that he will put up some decent numbers.

That said, A-Rod's 2004, .286, 36HR's, 106RBI's is far from sucking.


I was just saying that compared to what Arod is capable off , those numbers werent very good.


Find me a league where .286, 36 HR, 106 RBI, 28 SB, 112 R from a SS/3B (since he was still SS eligible from 03) is considered not very good by any standard incl. Arod's.

I don't seem to recall too many 30-30 players let alone 20-20 players at SS in history. :-?


maybe I exaggerated in saying Arods numbers in 2004 sucked. But that wasnt even the point of my argument. I was using Arod as an example of a player whoes numbers fell below career norms his 1st year in NY.


OK. I understand what you meant. But Arod in 04 was still better than 99% of players out there.
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Postby Yoda » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:26 pm

davidmarver wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Yin_Xu88 wrote:
pokerplaya wrote:I agree with you that Beltran should definitely improve, and that he will put up some decent numbers.

That said, A-Rod's 2004, .286, 36HR's, 106RBI's is far from sucking.


I was just saying that compared to what Arod is capable off , those numbers werent very good.


Find me a league where .286, 36 HR, 106 RBI, 28 SB, 112 R from a SS/3B (since he was still SS eligible from 03) is considered not very good by any standard incl. Arod's.

I don't seem to recall too many 30-30 players let alone 20-20 players at SS in history. :-?

Larkin is the only one besides ARod to post a 30/30 shortstop season; I know that. Howard Johnson did it at third a few times...I'm not sure if anyone else has. Either way, 30/30 seasons out of the left-side of the infield are few and far between.


Good call on Larkin. I totally forgot he put up 30-30.
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