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Is there every a reason to fold Pocket Aces in Hold Em?

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Is there every a reason to fold Pocket Aces in Hold Em?

Postby pokerplaya » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:43 pm

I was just thinking this to myself: could there ever be a reason to lay down the best pre flop hand possible (AA)?

Scenario: Right before the money in a big tournament, where you would win zero if you were knocked out, and would win a large sum of cash if you made it another spot. You're short stacked, and a larger stack puts you all in. Fold the best hand?
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Postby bigken117 » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:45 pm

I would fold A-K in that spot (I have before) but no, I cannot see folding AA being a good play.
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Postby pokerplaya » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:47 pm

bigken117 wrote:I would fold A-K in that spot (I have before) but no, I cannot see folding AA being a good play.


I've also folded AK in that spot, as well as JJ, but don't know if I could ever fold AA, or even KK (unless I had one hell of a read). That said, if you had a reasonable amount of chips, there were other shorter stacks out there, but you were put to the test for all your chips where if you were given a bad beat you'd go home empty handed the thought might cross my mind. For example, if that was a 10,000 question in the big one, zero or 10k, I'd most likely call but it would come into play for me.
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Postby Half Massed » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:53 pm

That would be a possible situation, but it would be tough. You'd have the better odds of beating the other guy anyways, but it may be smart to play it safe.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:01 pm

Half Massed wrote:That would be a possible situation, but it would be tough. You'd have the better odds of beating the other guy anyways, but it may be smart to play it safe.


exactly, it's smart to play cautiously in that situation but the odd is against the other players.
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Postby theclefe » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:09 pm

The only reason I could think of is to mess with his head. If you have a pretty good read on him, and you want to produce a fake tell that he will hopefully pick up on, then you could take the risk. Outside of that, the odds are to much in your favor to let it go.

the only other reason would be if a few other people called and there was a chance someone else would be eliminated, but that doesn't fit in your scenerio.
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Postby so0perspam » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:25 am

I definitely agree with laying down AK ... I've seen way too many guys go all-in on that hand not being short-stacked and get knocked out. AA and KK are definitely keepers though, there is really no way I'd lay those two hands down.
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Postby Madison » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:56 am

A/A wins 82% of the time heads up (or greater than that if your opponent is holding a pocket underpair like K/K.).

With 2 callers, your win percentage falls to 59%.

Steadily falls as you have callers. 3 or more, and you are not the favorite to win the hand anymore.


I've tossed pocket aces preflop before. One time it was simply due to winning guaranteed money. $3 plus rebuys at Pokerstars. We had been playing 6 hours and were down to 38 players. 37 players got a $215 entry into the big Sunday tournament and 38th place got $75 cash. I was watching all the tables (mostly just watching the short stacks.) and picked up A/A. The first few players folded, then the big stack raised to 120K. I was sitting on 210K (4th biggest at the table). I quickly scanned the other tables and saw the biggest stack in the tournament go all in. Amazingly the guy with the 5th most chips called him 8-o ! I clicked my "more time" button and watched the showdown. Chip leader=10/10, 5th place guy=A/K suited. The 10's held up and we had eliminated #38. So I folded my A/A since I didn't need to advance any further. We all got the same thing no matter if you were 1st or 37th. Also, had I called and lost, I'd have been out in 38th since the other guy had more money than I did when the hand started.

In other words, there are times and places to lay down A/A. B-)
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Postby eftda » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:45 am

Great story Madison, so uh... how much did you win? ;-)
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Postby Madison » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:18 pm

eftda wrote:Great story Madison, so uh... how much did you win? ;-)


Pokerstars is pretty cool with how they do things. I un-registered from the big tourney, and my account was credited with $215 "tourney bucks". You can use tourney bucks for anything except cashing out or playing at a money table. I used the tourney bucks to play other tourneys and sit and goes, and here's the coolest part. If you use say $20 in tourney bucks to enter a tournament and place in the money, your account is credited with the cash. By the time I was done spending the $215 in tourney bucks, I had rolled it into over $500 in real cash. The $3 plus rebuy tournaments are great if you don't mind spending around 6 hours on a tournament. :-)
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