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Which Current ML Executives Are "Hall of Famers"

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Postby Yoda » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:23 pm

Theo Epstein. Red Sox will never win again and he will go down in history as the one GM who brought them the championship. :-D
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:25 pm

Yoda wrote:Theo Epstein. Red Sox will never win again and he will go down in history as the one GM who brought them the championship. :-D


You kids with your poor grammar. There is no "r" in bought.
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Postby Pedantic » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:30 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Yoda wrote:Theo Epstein. Red Sox will never win again and he will go down in history as the one GM who brought them the championship. :-D


You kids with your poor grammar. There is no "r" in bought.


So...one can't "bring" a championship to a city? ;-)

Gillick was bad for the M's. They were a disaster waiting to happen. Not to mention his total lack of an ability to make deadline deals of any sort.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:40 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:OK so I had some time to check. Gillick leaves the Jays in 94 and they averaged 69 wins for the next 3 years. After 97 he leaves the Orioles and they average 77 wins in the next 3 years. Seattle collapsed last year. Seems like he knows when to leave. I'll take continued success over that.


I don't understand your point - Gillick is responsible for the failure after he leaves?
Partially yes. He wins now but sacrifices the future. To me that is only half of the equation.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:04 pm

Pedantic wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Yoda wrote:Theo Epstein. Red Sox will never win again and he will go down in history as the one GM who brought them the championship. :-D


You kids with your poor grammar. There is no "r" in bought.


So...one can't "bring" a championship to a city? ;-)

Gillick was bad for the M's. They were a disaster waiting to happen. Not to mention his total lack of an ability to make deadline deals of any sort.


Sorry Pedantic - you are wrong. Gillick mastered the deadline deal. In Toronto in 1992 he brought in Jack Morris and Winfield and then Cone at the deadline to shore up the rotation and then win a big game against Oakland.

In 1993 he brought in Molitor and Dave Stewart and then Rickey Henderson at the deadline who went on to score 6 runs in 6 WS games.

I do know that the Ms were the best team in baseball when he was their GM. They were lousy when he got there and in the three years under him they won 116, 93 and 93 games. How were they a "disaster waiting to happen"? Because everyone knew that Boone, Edgar, Moyer and Piniero were going to fall apart?
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:12 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:OK so I had some time to check. Gillick leaves the Jays in 94 and they averaged 69 wins for the next 3 years. After 97 he leaves the Orioles and they average 77 wins in the next 3 years. Seattle collapsed last year. Seems like he knows when to leave. I'll take continued success over that.


I don't understand your point - Gillick is responsible for the failure after he leaves?
Partially yes. He wins now but sacrifices the future. To me that is only half of the equation.


Gillick left the Jays after winning the WS - is he supposed to win the WS and make sure the Jays are set for the next ten yrs too?

And what did he do to the Orioles or M's other than take them to the playoffs in 4 of 6 years?

The guys doesn't have a 5 year plan when he takes over a crappy team, he has a 5 week plan and he gets it done.

The guy won two WS and made the playoffs in 7 of 12 years in the AL East on teams not named the Red Sox or Yankees and you can find fault with him?!?!? Incredible.
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Postby Red Stripe » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:14 pm

Don't you think you kind of have to put Steinbrenner in the Hall of Fame? I detest the guy but he has changed baseball a lot, he has shown that the owners can take complete charge of the organization and handle all day to day transaction and changes of the team. He has also made the Yankees pretty much by himself become the powerhorse team they have been the last 30 or however many years he's been there up top thanks to the amount of cash he has put into his team. I believe he should definitely be in there. Plus how many World Series rings has he won while he was with the Yankees?
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Postby Big Pimpin » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:35 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Pedantic wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Yoda wrote:Theo Epstein. Red Sox will never win again and he will go down in history as the one GM who brought them the championship. :-D


You kids with your poor grammar. There is no "r" in bought.


So...one can't "bring" a championship to a city? ;-)

Gillick was bad for the M's. They were a disaster waiting to happen. Not to mention his total lack of an ability to make deadline deals of any sort.


Sorry Pedantic - you are wrong. Gillick mastered the deadline deal. In Toronto in 1992 he brought in Jack Morris and Winfield and then Cone at the deadline to shore up the rotation and then win a big game against Oakland.

In 1993 he brought in Molitor and Dave Stewart and then Rickey Henderson at the deadline who went on to score 6 runs in 6 WS games.

I do know that the Ms were the best team in baseball when he was their GM. They were lousy when he got there and in the three years under him they won 116, 93 and 93 games. How were they a "disaster waiting to happen"? Because everyone knew that Boone, Edgar, Moyer and Piniero were going to fall apart?


I have to agree with Mookie on this one. Gillick did exactly what they wanted him to do when he came to Seattle. They wanted to win, he brought in the players and made it happen. He filled the stadium and put a great product on the field. I will somewhat agree with the fact that he didn't have the team set up that great to win every year, but no one does that outside Atlanta and maybe Oakland.

I also don't think the lack of the Mariners making big moves at the deadline had anything to do with Gillick. As I recall when they needed a 3B a couple years back they actually put a better offer on the table for Aaron Boone, but Bowden didn't want to deal with Gillick and sent him to the Yanks. I also think he was hamstrung by ownership not allowing to go one penny over budget, even if it meant a possible run at a championship.

I think Gillick is a heck of a GM. Anyone that gets him is lucky. ;-D

He's MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Bavasi, that guy has killed the M's in the last couple years. :-t
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:03 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:OK so I had some time to check. Gillick leaves the Jays in 94 and they averaged 69 wins for the next 3 years. After 97 he leaves the Orioles and they average 77 wins in the next 3 years. Seattle collapsed last year. Seems like he knows when to leave. I'll take continued success over that.


I don't understand your point - Gillick is responsible for the failure after he leaves?
Partially yes. He wins now but sacrifices the future. To me that is only half of the equation.


Gillick left the Jays after winning the WS - is he supposed to win the WS and make sure the Jays are set for the next ten yrs too?

And what did he do to the Orioles or M's other than take them to the playoffs in 4 of 6 years?

The guys doesn't have a 5 year plan when he takes over a crappy team, he has a 5 week plan and he gets it done.

The guy won two WS and made the playoffs in 7 of 12 years in the AL East on teams not named the Red Sox or Yankees and you can find fault with him?!?!? Incredible.
Great GM no doubt but do you really think it is coincidence that the year after he leaves each team they don't finish over .500? Maybe I'm just too picky when it comes to executives for HOF.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:59 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Yoda wrote:Theo Epstein. Red Sox will never win again and he will go down in history as the one GM who brought them the championship. :-D


You kids with your poor grammar. There is no "r" in bought.


LMAO :-°
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