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Johan is the AL Cy Young, Right?

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Postby looptid » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:20 am

lesgrant wrote:Both the MVP and Cy Young are about a performance within the context of the team. Baseball is a team sport. You can deconstruct it all you want, but you'll still need nine guys for a full side who will have to play together to win games - which is the ultimate objective on the field, not accumulating stats for stats' sake.

If it is a team sport, like you say, why does one player get assigned "the win". A pitcher's job is not to win ballgames. Like you say, it is the team's job to win ballgames. A collection of individuals. Seeing as how Colon and Santana never come to bat, it is impossible for either to win a game (unless you know of a major league game that was played and won by a team that didn't score a run). A pitcher's job is to shut down the opposing offense. Santana does that better than Colon. If the Cy Young is the award for the best pitcher, it should go to Santana. If it is the award for the pitcher with the most statistical wins arbitrarily assigned to him, then it should go to Colon.
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Postby superfly » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:05 pm

Now with all games played, I think it will be between Colon and Santana. Rivera will get votes too, but I firmly believe closers should not win the Cy.

With that said, let's revisit Colon vs Santana now:

Win/Loss:
Johan - 16/7
Colon - 21/8

ERA:
Johan - 2.87
Colon - 3.48

WHIP:
Johan - 0.97
Colon - 1.16

K's:
Johan - 238
Colon - 157

BAA:
Johan - .212 (likely lower once they calculate in today's game since batters went 3/23 against him)
Colon - .254

IP/CG/SHO:
Johan - 231.2/3/2
Colon - 222.2/2/0

Johan beats Colon in every signifcant category besides wins and deserves to win but he very well may not.
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Postby mweir145 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:06 pm

superfly wrote:Now with all games played, I think it will be between Colon and Santana. Rivera will get votes too, but I firmly believe closers should not win the Cy.

With that said, let's revisit Colon vs Santana now:

Win/Loss:
Johan - 16/7
Colon - 21/8

ERA:
Johan - 2.87
Colon - 3.48

WHIP:
Johan - 0.97
Colon - 1.16

K's:
Johan - 238
Colon - 157

BAA:
Johan - .212 (likely lower once they calculate in today's game since batters went 3/23 against him)
Colon - .254

IP/CG/SHO:
Johan - 231.2/3/2
Colon - 222.2/2/0

Johan beats Colon in every signifcant category besides wins and deserves to win but he very well may not.

I think Santana should and will win the AL Cy Young.
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Postby Kingctb27 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:22 pm

After today, he's the Cy Young Winner, easily. IMO
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Postby Big Pimpin » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:29 pm

kingctb27 wrote:After today, he's the Cy Young Winner, easily. IMO


I sure hope so. If he doesn't, it just goes to show what the voters think about the Wins column. Even though that has very little to do with how the pitcher pitched over the course of a season.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:32 pm

Santana now has 17 wins, more then enough for CY. 20 wins gets noticed, but Santana had less losses, playing on a team that won 12 less. Santanas win % was more over his teams win % then Colons. And Colon had more run support.
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Postby nikku88 » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:42 am

I'd vote for Santana easily over Colon, but I have a feeling he won't win it. Sportswriters just seem to really favour wins and I doubt most of them pay any attention to WHIP at all. I hope I'm wrong though.
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Postby CircleMeBert » Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:15 pm

Wow, you guys are really expecting Santana to win? I really think he should win, but it would be a big suprise to me.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:24 pm

It would be nice if the voters actually got it right and Santana got the Cy but I still think they overvalue W's especially W's over 20.
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Postby WharfRat » Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:30 pm

HOOTIE wrote:Santana now has 17 wins, more then enough for CY. 20 wins gets noticed, but Santana had less losses, playing on a team that won 12 less. Santanas win % was more over his teams win % then Colons. And Colon had more run support.


Santana actually has 16 wins. No starter has ever won a Cy with only 16 wins over a full season.
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