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Johan is the AL Cy Young, Right?

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Postby WharfRat » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:54 am

Mookie4ever wrote:Give A-Rod the MVP and Big Papi the Cy Young. No pitcher in the AL deserves it.


So you're saying ARod should be MVP? :-D

If I had a vote, Santana would get it, he's the best pitcher in the AL, whether Colon has 20 wins or not.

Let's say Santana is able to win his final 2 starts. If he were to get the Cy, it would be the first time since 1984 that a pitcher won a Cy with only 16 wins during a non-shortened season (and that year, Sutcliffe was traded midseason, pitched 150 innings in the NL and went 16-1. Including his AL stats he was 20-6). No other full-time starter has ever won a Cy with 16 wins in a non-strike shortened season, going back 50 years. The only 17-game Cy winners are Unit and Pedro. Does not bode well for Johan. :-P
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Postby Red Stripe » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:20 am

I think Johan should win it but you should all know how those voters usually cast their votes. They put way to much emphasis on W-L records and it really screws some guys over because they might not play on a playoff team. I've preached that over and over again but that is just the way it works. It'll most likely be Colon because the he ain't too far away from Johan in ERA, WHIP, and BAA but he is a 20 winner and has the same amount of losses. For some reason the voters soil themselves when they see a 20 winner and just ignore the true telling stats.

So I think Johan should win it, but I think Colon will win it.
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Postby bd3521 » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:36 am

[url]http://www.footballguys.com/05vbdrevisited.htm[/url]
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Postby Red Stripe » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:39 am

That Cy Young predictor thingy is interesting and was pretty cool to look at around the start and middle of the season but any type of formula that still has Chad Cordero ranked higher than guys such as Pedro, Oswalt, and The Rocket is not worth much consideration.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:50 am



Your Cy Young predictor is broken. It has Clemens as #9 behind Turnbow and it has Johan as #8 behind Danys Baez. 8-o I'm not sure but I think that Baez is a pitcher for the D-Rays.

I don't know whether Johan and Clemens will win but they sure as hell will finish ahead of Baez and Turnbow.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:04 am

Mookie4ever wrote:I'm glad that the talk of giving it to Mariano have died out and those scrubs in Chicago have come back to earth.

It's a sad state of affairs in the AL.

Whoever said that pitching wins should just look at the AL East. The Yankees and Red Sox have two of the worst staffs to ever compete for a playoff spot and the Red Sox's bullpen is a joke. It's all about hitting these days. Give A-Rod the MVP and Big Papi the Cy Young. No pitcher in the AL deserves it.

Uh... I'd say Santana's numbers as a pitcher are excellent and quite good for the heavy hitting AL. Far worse pitchers have won. Of course Colon will win because of 20 wins, but Santana should win.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:22 am

CubsFan7724 wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:I'm glad that the talk of giving it to Mariano have died out and those scrubs in Chicago have come back to earth.

It's a sad state of affairs in the AL.

Whoever said that pitching wins should just look at the AL East. The Yankees and Red Sox have two of the worst staffs to ever compete for a playoff spot and the Red Sox's bullpen is a joke. It's all about hitting these days. Give A-Rod the MVP and Big Papi the Cy Young. No pitcher in the AL deserves it.

Uh... I'd say Santana's numbers as a pitcher are excellent and quite good for the heavy hitting AL. Far worse pitchers have won. Of course Colon will win because of 20 wins, but Santana should win.


Sure I think that Santana should win it. But by the numbers, compared to last year he has a worse WHIP, ERA, has already given up more hits than last year, already has more losses than last year, won't come close to his K total of last year and will win 5-6 fewer games than last year.

My point is that the pitching in the AL is not very good this year. Who are the "far worse pitchers" who have won the AL Cy? Clemens in 2001? Hentgen 1996? McDowell in 1993? They are comparable but not far worse.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:39 am

Mookie4ever wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:I'm glad that the talk of giving it to Mariano have died out and those scrubs in Chicago have come back to earth.

It's a sad state of affairs in the AL.

Whoever said that pitching wins should just look at the AL East. The Yankees and Red Sox have two of the worst staffs to ever compete for a playoff spot and the Red Sox's bullpen is a joke. It's all about hitting these days. Give A-Rod the MVP and Big Papi the Cy Young. No pitcher in the AL deserves it.

Uh... I'd say Santana's numbers as a pitcher are excellent and quite good for the heavy hitting AL. Far worse pitchers have won. Of course Colon will win because of 20 wins, but Santana should win.


Sure I think that Santana should win it. But by the numbers, compared to last year he has a worse WHIP, ERA, has already given up more hits than last year, already has more losses than last year, won't come close to his K total of last year and will win 5-6 fewer games than last year.

My point is that the pitching in the AL is not very good this year. Who are the "far worse pitchers" who have won the AL Cy? Clemens in 2001? Hentgen 1996? McDowell in 1993? They are comparable but not far worse.

Come on, to say no one should win it because no one was close to Johan's 2004 numbers is pretty silly. Johan's numbers were straight up retarded last year (and they are pretty good this year.) I mean, its not like the numbers Johan has are that bad. Its just a fact that playing in the AL, for the most part their numbers will look worse compared to the NL guys.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:53 am

Cubsfan, when I said that noone should win it and that they should give the AL Cy to David Ortiz, I WAS JOKING. :-°

Of course it should go to Vlad
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:07 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:Cubsfan, when I said that noone should win it and that they should give the AL Cy to David Ortiz, I WAS JOKING. :-°

Of course it should go to Vlad

Heh, you should use some of these guys then :-b :-D ;-)
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