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Why I now hate Head to Head

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Postby gogogadget » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:55 am

I think it is safe to say, if you are a fantasy baseball expert, as most of the people in this thread are, and you get more satisfaction out of winning by the 13th week then having it come down to the wire...Roto is the way you seem to be choosing. As for me, I get more satisfaction out of competing down to the very end. May some team beat me in the playoffs so be it. H2H increases the excitement, and unpredictability. I dont mind having the best team and having to bite my nails to see what will happen...in fact, I prefer it that way.

For instance, in my league I was the first place finisher of the regular season by 15 games. However, after my bye I played a team that looked like it would beat me. They were leading the matchup coming into tonight's games, it was my last day to catch up. The key categories I was behind in was ERA, RBI's HR's, and we were tied in Losses. Today he had Matt clement on the mound and that runined it all for him. I got era, I got wins, I ended up getting RBI's as well and gained the lead and the win by a slim margin. That type of matchup is much more satisfying than the roto way and I will take the chance of that type of win than the mundane Roto style.
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Postby blankman » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:23 am

I can't stand H2H. A lot of punting and quantity over quality is often seen there. H2H simply isn't the same as real baseball like many think it is. It occurs very often that the top team gets bounced, while in the actual sport its not nearly as often.

I want to know my team was the best overall for the entire season and that's why Roto is my preference.
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Postby Jack-In-A-Box » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:09 am

I've played both roto and H2h. H2h is what I'll play from now on. I liked em both but H2H gives you more of a reason to try throughout the year. Take this year. I'm a lock for 1st so I wasn't worried. But every single team in my league had a shot at the final playoff spot coming down to the final two weeks of the season. And 4 teams were fighting for the last spot during the last week. You can't get that kind of comp in roto. To many people give up when they are far behind or their top few picks go down in roto. I was the 2nd best team in my roto H2h league this year and just lost to the 3rd place team, who was like 30 games back going into the playoffs. So now it's 3rd vs 1st best teams. Just like baseball H2h is. It's not a gimme that I should win because I have a better record. Which is why I like it. I am however in the World Series in two other leagues this week. One I am the best team record wise the other I was 2nd best. Will I win? Doubt it. Losing Mussina, Sheets and pesky injuries to Santana, Patterson late will probably cost me. But that all happens in real baseball. To me it only makes it sweeter if I do pull a rabbit in the hat trick and do win. Every format has its pros and cons but, H2h is most like real baseball. Thus, it's what I love to play.

I will win one of those 2 WS though. I promise you that. :-D :-o
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Postby chadlincoln » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:10 am

I agree. You can dominate all year and not win the league because of one bad week.
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Postby Jack-In-A-Box » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:16 am

chadlincoln wrote:I agree. You can dominate all year and not win the league because of one bad week.


How many times have the Braves had the best record in baseball and not won the World Series? You think they should say they hate the format that baseball uses because they had the best record in baseball during the regular season so many years but didn't win the World Series because they had a "bad week"? The expression "On paper they have a better team" comes to mind. Another is " Thats why they play the games." H2h is most like real baseball because on paper a team might look like the champions(Yankees 05) but get beat down by a much lesser team( TampaBay 05) Thats why H2h is so much more fun to me.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:26 am

JTWood wrote:Yeah, I hate having the team with the best regular season record only to get swept in the World Series.

;-7

I don't understand people here. Why is that sort of thing acceptable (and even expected) in the real game but completely unacceptable in the fantasy version?

:-?


You think the Cards will be happy if they don't make the WS? They have the best team in the NL so far this season, yet if they make the playoffs and lose, I'm not guessing they'll be celebrating and just say it was acceptable and even expected.

Same goes for the Yankees. Do you think George will think it is acceptable for his $200M+ team to "just" make the playoffs (if they make at all). Will he think this was acceptable and expected if they don't win the WS?

I'm with Madison (and others) - it may be closer to real baseball, but H2H adds more luck, and I just don't want to deal with it. I'll take my chances that I can build the best team to win my league, and not have to rely on the luck H2H adds for me to actually win.

Oh yeah, as for teams slumping in roto - yes, it happens. But if I have the best team for 23 weeks, I'll gamble a two week slump won't cost me a championship. It happens, I know, but much less often than in H2H. Again, I play fantasy to have fun and to win. As for the latter, again, I'll take my chances on my abilities to build the best team instead of relying on luck to win.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:40 am

wrveres wrote:
Madison wrote:
JTWood wrote:
Madison wrote:As to real life, if I wanted my fantasy game to resemble real life, I'd need a 30 team league where rules were in place that no one could have more than one closer, and no one could start more than one starting pitcher per day. H2H doesn't simulate real baseball nearly as much as some people think.

The scenario you describe is based on an assumption about rules. Rules can be changed in both roto and H2H to make the game more closely resemble the real thing, but we both know that unless you're in a sim league, H2H will always be a closer replication of the real thing than roto ever could be - ceteris paribus.


What you seem to be misunderstanding is that some of us play the game for what it is. You try to field the best team possible, and the owner who does it the best, wins the league. Forget luck, and forget trying to mimic real life. The object of the game is to field the best team possible ;-) .

When the best team gets eliminated due to the luck factor, that takes away from the game because anyone can get lucky once in awhile. Doesn't take brains or knowledge to luck out, and the fact that it happens so often in H2H leagues, takes away from the game for me.

If I want to get as close to real as possible, I'll play sim leagues or sim a season on X-Box or PS2. :-°


I understand the luck aspect that you are referring to for H2H, and you know I have always been a big roto fan. I still am. I play both, H2H and Roto inclunding NL only roto, and IMO there is just as much luck in roto as in H2H. ..

this year, in my NL Only Roto I drafted ..
Bagwell
Bonds
Craig Wilson
Jason Schmidt
Mark Prior
Kerry Wood
Eric Gagne
Jeroime Williams
Jose Mesa and
Foppert.

A ton of power, and a ton of studly pitching ..
where was my luck?


Without knowing more (i.e. when they were drafted and when the draft was), there will always be an element of luck in any fantasy format. That said, every single one of these players had a high degree of risk associated with him. Many of these players were hurt in 2004 and/or had injury questions in ST. A couple had performance questions (e.g. Mesa - no one I knew thought he was a safe pick based on skills and the existance of Mike Gonzalez).

Was it unlucky for all of them to come up lame? Yes. But based on the amount of risk associated with each, it can't be that surprising.

Managing risk is a skill in any fantasy format as well, but can present some good buying opportunities - e.g. Drew in 2004 and Griffey this year. So, again, depending on when players were taken, if all your gambles fall through, then yes you were unlucky. Again, luck will always be a factor in any fantasy format - as someone else put very well, baseball itself is a game that involves luck.

That said, H2H just adds more luck. Those who like it, great. I'll just take roto any day of the week as I'd rather trust my skill more.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:57 am

Two weeks to go in my main roto league, 3.5 points seperate the top three teams. You can't tell me that's not exciting. I love roto!
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Postby rainman23 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:13 pm

Two years ago I had lapped the field in our Roto league, and was playing against myself. Literally, because the other managers were scarcely paying attention anymore. That was a good time. Last year we went to H2H, where I got to enjoy the same "building the best team possible" thing that you guys enjoy. In the regular season. Then, come September, instead of beginning the countdown to March and the next draft, I got to experience the challenge of guiding that same team through the playoffs. A slightly different set of skills were involved here, but it was great fun. And the satisfaction of winning that playoff was comparable to winning the regular season title. This year I'm back in the finals and guess what? I might get my ass kicked. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

By and large, Roto baseball in September is a big snorefest. There are certainly exceptions, but that's what they are -- exceptions. I'm pretty sure we'll go back to Roto in our league the year that Yahoo adds a playoff option.
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Postby StlSluggers » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:36 pm

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
JTWood wrote:Yeah, I hate having the team with the best regular season record only to get swept in the World Series.

;-7

I don't understand people here. Why is that sort of thing acceptable (and even expected) in the real game but completely unacceptable in the fantasy version?

:-?


You think the Cards will be happy if they don't make the WS? They have the best team in the NL so far this season, yet if they make the playoffs and lose, I'm not guessing they'll be celebrating and just say it was acceptable and even expected.

Same goes for the Yankees. Do you think George will think it is acceptable for his $200M+ team to "just" make the playoffs (if they make at all). Will he think this was acceptable and expected if they don't win the WS?

You completely missed my point. It's "acceptable" insomuch as the Cards or Yanks won't go crying the Commissioner to get the rules changed so that the World Series champion is declared on the last day of the regular season.

Sure, they won't be happy with an early bounce, but they understand that luck has a lot to do with whether or not a team wins the World Series. H2H simply emulates that.

BTW, can anyone qualify the term "luck" for me with respect to how it applies to H2H? As I see it, there are two forms of luck in H2H - real-life events (player sitting, injury, slump) and scheduling luck. The former impacts roto just as much as it affects H2H, but the latter is unique to the format. However, unlike the former, the latter can be completely quantified and measured.

So, when you guys are complaining about "luck," which form is it?
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