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Hitter churning

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Hitter churning

Postby ja515y » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:02 pm

This guy in my league (who is in 1st right now), has played pretty much nothing but hot players all year. This wasn't a problem for most of the season, but lately he's been picking guys up and dropping them the very next day. And it's like 5 players at a time. So now that I need someone to fill a spot, all of the players I would even think about picking up have to clear waivers.
Does this seem wrong to anybody else. I understand using hot players as a strategy, but when it's almost everday and keeps others from being able to pick up players to fill spots. It's starting to get on my nerves
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Postby ramble2 » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:05 pm

I don't see any difference between spot starting hitters or pitchers. There is a cost to this strategy - you have to dedicate a certain number of roster spots to rotating players. Since most players on waivers are pretty crappy, this typically isn't that great a strategy. There aren't 5 players on my waiver wire that I'd rather play on any given day than 5 I've already got on my roster.
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Postby ja515y » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:16 pm

He has the spots though. Pujols, Carpenter, Oswalt, Turnbow, B. Wagner, and Nathon are his only keepers. All the rest of his players have been the Hot players. I'm not sure if this was his intention from the start, or he just had a bad team and was desperate. Either way it just doesn't seem like it's in good spirit of the game.
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Postby Sultans of Squat » Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:08 am

Normally, I too wouldn't worry about owners playing the hot guys off WW, but it does sound like this guy might be going a bit too far though. Is he really adding/dropping 5 guys everyday?? How shallow/deep is your league anyway? Sounds pretty unusual to be rotating that many guys everyday.

Maybe you guys should consider upping the size of the keeper list next year and/or upping the roster size. That might keep things more reasonable (or keep owners from relying too much on WW). If not, maybe placing a reasonable cap on add/drops -- nothing too restrictive, but just enough to discourage owners from going nuts w/ the WW -- maybe a 100-move limit would do.
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Postby Madison » Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:17 am

I tend to keep a couple of flotation spots in order to fill my lineup on off days (and make sure I max out my games played at each position--roto leagues), but adding/dropping 5 hitters daily? Wow. I don't really see an issue with that since hitters are so hard to predict, but strange that he would do that every day. :-?
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Postby Sultans of Squat » Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:50 am

Well, problem is it can end up blocking other owners from using the WW in a reasonable manner. While it's not technically churning, it might be yielding a similar effect. And while other owners can try the same tactic, that would probably just lead to utter chaos and even more frustration in the league.

I think the question should be whether it's an anti-competitive strategy or not, not whether it's churning by definition -- maybe the definition should change to include this.

Also, the answer to that question should probably (again) account for league expectations. Maybe most owners join this league for casual fun and expect to only put in a few minutes a day, if that, while this one owner is putting in tons of time to effectively employ his strategy, which he seems to have thus far. That could be viewed as anti-competitive in itself given some contexts.

IMHO, context does matter a lot, and it's why I have no problems playing in one league that has a fairly restrictive moves limit (40 max) while also another that has no explicit moves limit (but has the usual games/IP limits and is a dynasty-like league). We've also tried a weekly setup w/ the 40-move limit once, but I think some owners felt it was too restrictive and boring -- I just found it to be an interesting challenge that's a bit different than usual. Most of those owners definitely did not like having no moves limits (from our first 2 seasons of play).
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Postby BaseballFann0008 » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:32 am

i would do so with pitchers, but that just killed my ERA
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Postby San D » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:04 am

I've seen it happen in a few leagues. This offseason, get the guys together at some bar for a rules meeting, buy a round, and propose a weekly transaction limit.
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Postby ja515y » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:50 am

It's not a keeper league buy the way, but I did post a message telling him I wasn't pleased with what he was doing to see if I could get something out of him and this was his reply:

Alls fair
...in love,war & fantasy baseball. I'm just glad all these wild trade transactions are history. You think I'm here to make it easy for you not gonna happen. All I'm sweating for these last couple weeks are the lumberjacks so in reality if 3rd-5th place is that important to you I must apoligize for wrecking your strategy.

1st off I'm only 4 roto points out of 1st and I'm on somewhat of a roll. And from his reply it sounds like it is part of his strategy to screw it up for everyone else. This just makes it that much more satisfying if I can win it.
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Postby rlee » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:52 am

What's the big deal? Everyone has the same waiver period, so it's not like this guy has any advantage over other teams. If you don't like what he';s doing, just put in a calim or two on these valuable players he's dropping. That should mess him up. Unless the players you have to drop to pick up these gems are actually better :-X
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