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Evidence of Collusion

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Is this collusion?

Poll ended at Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:51 am

Yes
23
96%
No
1
4%
 
Total votes : 24

Evidence of Collusion

Postby Gwyddbwyll » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:51 am

Okay I'm in a public Yahoo H2H league. A team called the Corys is the last one to join and immediately posts a derogatory message "Gonna whip ya ass Smoke!" at another team called the Smoke. I was initially a bit surprised at the aggression. Smoke made no response and nobody else made any response either. Draft was unremarkable.

Smoke starts the season poorly, only 4 batsmen in the lineup and everyone else benched. Okay, he doesnt want to play with a jerk,
fair enough. I'm playin though.

March 10
Corys acquires Bonderman and Garciaparra from Smoke for Renteria and Wickman.

This is before Garciaparra's bad start or injury. Bonderman is
pretty hot property though and Garciaparra a big name. But not
too bad even though Renteria and Wickman are awful in April.

May 28

Corys acquires Abreu and Kent from Smoke for Beltran and Vidro.

Beltran was struggling. Abreu not as hot as he is now, but still
better. Kent doing well but also not at his peak. Vidro is injured
however and clearly not worth Kent. I vetoed this but it went through.

June 13

Corys acquires Posada, V.Wells and regains Renteria for Lopez, Mench and Neifi Perez.

Now Lopez has just been injured after hitting .220 in May. Posada has been hitting .325 in May. Renteria has just
hit .354 for May while Neifi is okay but hitting .254. Wells was
hitting his peak at this time as well. Mench is a hot pickup at this
time but still no more than a fringe player in a 12 team league.

There are no other trades between any teams or offers.

Corys win the league (I finished 4.5 games behind in 2nd place). Smoke finished bottom by a long way.

I checked Smoke's roster and the manager didnt even bother putting in any of their 'new' players. They went through the entire season with 4 batters and most of the rest benched.

So I've written to Yahoo. I think its a slam dunk case of clear collusion. At the very least Smoke has not been playing or trading with an intent to compete. You dont make huge trades like Beltran for Abreu and not bother to play them??!

Yahoo wrote back and said the trades look bad now but at the time were acceptable. Uh okay. I've asked them to look at Smoke's schedule and and non-playing of acquired players as evidence the trades were made in bad faith.

If the above isnt evidence, then I'm not sure what is? Do you agree?

PS Im going to be knocked out of the playoffs so I'm not asking to be awarded the win. But the team that beat me should get it.
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Postby Pablo975 » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:42 am

I'd say that's probably collusion. I'd have also jettisoned that crap league a long ago too. :-t

Public leagues suck.
Last edited by Pablo975 on Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Madison » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:22 am

Sounds like someone joined the league twice just to cause issues. All part of public leagues though. Stinks that stuff like that is common. :-/

Next year, check out our Classifieds Forum and find some good Cafe' members to play with. ;-D
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Postby Gwyddbwyll » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:47 am

Keep voting guys :)

If Yahoo dont think its collusion, then I dont know what else is proof.

PS I joined a non-Cafe one because I wanted an easy league who didnt read the Cafe ;-D , mostly because all my others were tough ones.
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Postby Minor League Skilz » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:55 am

Give up on public leagues or at least be prepared to have them ruined in some way.

That guy is cheating.
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Postby josebach » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:22 am

March 10
"Corys acquires Bonderman and Garciaparra from Smoke for
Renteria and Wickman"
Garciaparra for Renteria - Not a bad trade considering Garciaparra's injury history. The way this season turned out it was a smart trade.

Bonderman for Wickman - Uh... who cares? :-) Not a bad trade.

May 28
"Corys acquires Abreu and Kent from Smoke for Beltran and Vidro."
There was PLENTY of people that still thought Beltran was better than Abreu at this point. Vidro's numbers a few years ago must have been taken into consideration. Plus, Kent was REAAAALLLYY slumping at the time... I had him.

The only trade in my mind that was really unfair AT THE TIME IT WAS MADE was the June 13th one.
"Corys acquires Posada, V.Wells and regains Renteria for Lopez, Mench and Neifi Perez."

Posada for Lopez - acceptable

Wells for Mench - this is kind of one sided, but it's not that much of a stetch. Currently, Wells is ranked 125 overall and Mench is ranked 160. In 2004, Wells was ranked 177 and Mench was ranked 209. There were times during the year where even I though Mench might be better... especially at home games.

Renteria for Perez - definitely not a good trade, but Perez offers second base eligibility as well and Renteria isn't exactly putting up career numbers.

I really don't think these moves are going to win anybody their league. Whether he played the players or not is besides the point.
Could this one trade involve collusion? Sure, maybe. But if I was Yahoo, I wouldn't overturn a league champion because of it either.
Last edited by josebach on Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SHOCKandAWE » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:43 am

Madison wrote:Sounds like someone joined the league twice just to cause issues. All part of public leagues though. Stinks that stuff like that is common. :-/

Next year, check out our Classifieds Forum and find some good Cafe' members to play with. ;-D


Agree. this is very poor and pathetic if it's true.

Who would want to cheat in a public non money league
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Postby Gwyddbwyll » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:40 am

josebach wrote:March 10
"Corys acquires Bonderman and Garciaparra from Smoke for
Renteria and Wickman"
Garciaparra for Renteria - Not a bad trade considering Garciaparra's injury history. The way this season turned out it was a smart trade.

Bonderman for Wickman - Uh... who cares? :-) Not a bad trade.

May 28
"Corys acquires Abreu and Kent from Smoke for Beltran and Vidro."
There was PLENTY of people that still thought Beltran was better than Abreu at this point. Vidro's numbers a few years ago must have been taken into consideration. Plus, Kent was REAAAALLLYY slumping at the time... I had him.

The only trade in my mind that was really unfair AT THE TIME IT WAS MADE was the June 13th one.
"Corys acquires Posada, V.Wells and regains Renteria for Lopez, Mench and Neifi Perez."

Posada for Lopez - acceptable

Wells for Mench - this is kind of one sided, but it's not that much of a stetch. Currently, Wells is ranked 125 overall and Mench is ranked 160. In 2004, Wells was ranked 177 and Mench was ranked 209. There were times during the year where even I though Mench might be better... especially at home games.

Renteria for Perez - definitely not a good trade, but Perez offers second base eligibility as well and Renteria isn't exactly putting up career numbers.


Thanks for your well reasoned feedback. I am guessing Yahoo will agree with you.

Im not sure I agree with some of your points though:

Vidro was injured. At 2B getting Kent for him is like winning the lottery.

Wickman was a huge injury risk wasnt he? He's turned out well but I remember him as someone I was staying far away from at the start. He also went on to post a 7+ ERA for the first month. Bonderman was pretty much the hottest dark horse SP at that time.

I dont think Posada for Lopez is acceptable when Lopez has just gotten injured and was hitting .220 to Posada's .325. I dont think anyone here would do that trade. Similarly Renteria was hitting over 100 points higher than Perez AT the time. Sure does look suspicious when the good team is getting all the hot players and the bottom team all the cold ones.
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Postby SHOCKandAWE » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:43 am

The fact that the guy made all those trades and didn't take the time to set his lineups is enough to say colusion.
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Postby Gwyddbwyll » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:46 am

josebach wrote:I really don't think these moves are going to win anybody their league. Whether he played the players or not is besides the point.
Could this one trade involve collusion? Sure, maybe. But if I was Yahoo, I wouldn't overturn a league champion because of it either.


Do you feel that collusion should not automatically result in disqualification? I think it should, its breaking the rules, regardless of whether he won the league or not.
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