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Does last night solidify things?

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Does last night solidify things?

Postby denny_32 » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:34 pm

OK, so can we finally put to rest the arguement for Clemens to win the Cy Young? Ohh, and Andruw Jones and Lee to win the MVP?

Peter Gammons stated today on the Mike & Mike show, that last nights game has pretty much solidfied his votes for MVP and Cy Young.

Now, not taking anything away from the 3 players mentioned earlier, but how can you deny Carp and Pujols those awards after the seasons they have had. I understand that the season Pujols is having is nothing new, but come on...he's been so consistent all year it isn't even funny, hell he's been that way his entire time in the big leagues.

I read an article yesterday on ESPN.com from Jayson Stark that states the Cy Young should go to Clemens, pretty much because he's a "legend".

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2154658
"Roger Clemens or Chris Carpenter for the NL Cy Young? The debate is about more than numbers this year, writes Jayson Stark."

Now, how can it be about more than the numbers this year OR ANY YEAR!!! I thought thats what the awards were for. The best player (to me the stats have a lot of bearing on this) should win the awards. IIf what Stark says is true, then hell, if Bonds comes back this year, and only has a couple of hits, then he should win the MVP, cuz he's a "legend".

Enough of this crap. Give the awards to the guys that deserve them the most!!

MVP

1. Jones has 45 HRs and 114 RBI. What else has he done? That .270 BA is outstanding, isn't it.

2. Lee. Ok, this guy has had one hell of a year, hands down. If he were to get it, I wouldn't be as pissed off as I would if Jones got it. He has 1 more HR than Albert and a slightly better BA. Now, most of the other stats are in Albert's favor. To me, Albert has had a better season.



Cy Young

1. Clemens has Carp beat in ERA. THATS IT!!! Carp is leading the NL in almost every other catagory. Granted, that ERA of Clemens' is damn nice, but you can't just base a Cy Young award on that alone. How can you fault Carp for having a better team around him.

2. There has been pretty much no mention of the next guy, Dontrelle Willis. He has also had a wonderful season, but trails Carp in every catagory.

So, I know this is a long post, and I'm now done stating my opinion on all of this. I'm sure both awards will come down to the final week, lets just hope people look at the numbers before they look at the player.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:45 pm

Based on how the voters have gone in past years Pujols and Carpenter have the MVP and CY locked up.

If I was voting right now I would give the Cy to Clemens and Pujols the MVP. Andruw doesn't even enter into the discussion. Still there is some baseball to be played.
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Postby JTWood » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:49 am

After Clemens' last outing, I think that he moves into a tie for second place with the resurgent D-Train.

Pujols and Carpenter take the awards this year, with the Series trophy sitting in front of them.

:-]

Hey, you gotta have dreams, right?

B-)
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:31 am

I think Clemens should win the award. If he even had average run support he'd definitely be on the plus side of 20 now. Afterall, thats all the voters really look for, the bogus "traditional" stats like wins and ERA, not things that really show what a player means to his team, and Clemens has meant a hell of a lot more to the Astros that Carpenter has to the Cardinals. However, as long as he doesn't implode down the stretch, Carpenter will win it because he could concievably come close to 25 wins, and since Clemens won it last year over RJ, we all know the voters are full of $hit.

The MVP is a tougher call, but I still think using my own definition of MVP -- what kind of fall off would the team have overall without said candidate in the lineup -- it's Pujols and Lee with the last few weeks playing a huge role in who ends up with it. As bad as the Cubbies have been with Lee could you imagine their season without him? 8-o I know the same can be said of Pujols with all the injuries, and that's the reason I think it's so tight. Jones shouldn't really be considered at all if you ask me. Sure he plays a good CF, but would they really be that much worse off without him? He ranks 10th in win shares...in the NL, and only has the third highest total on his own team behind Giles (8th in the NL) and Furcal (9th).
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