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Postby looptid » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:56 pm

And I wouldn't put too much blame Morneau. He's a 24 year-old in his first full season in the bigs. What about Stewart who has the worst on-base percentage among all AL leadoff hitters, and the second worst pitches-per-plate-appearance? Or thinking you can get away with playing two of Castro/L. Rodriguez/Punto/Abernathy/Rivas every night and still score runs.
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Postby brandnew » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:07 pm

Yeah, but the Twins were expecting big things out of him. I'm just saying that's a big reason they're not as good as everyone thought they would be. They have no slugger.

What can they do about that during the offseason? They have some major holes in that lineup..

And, why not trade Nathan? There are so many teams that are desperate for a closer, and the Twins have Crain, who can probably be a good closer, as well as Romero and Rincon who aren't too shabby. They could fill a need by trading Nathan. I don't know, Crain is unproven. IMO, they should trade Nathan for a bat.
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Postby CircleMeBert » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:47 pm

Being a twins fan, i would not be very comfortable with Crain as our closer. I just don't think he's ready yet, maybe once he's gets his K's up again. Of our current relievers, i rather see Rincon fill in that role. But still, i'm really not sure about trading Nathan and i really doubt the Twins would let him go.
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Postby joeg24 » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:47 am

Trading Nathen isn't a horrible idea, as Dany Baez and a couple other below average closers were attracting some pretty nice prospects a couple months back. If I remember right, didn't TB pass on trading Baez in a three team deal that landed on of Boston's big middle infielder prospects?

If they could somehow grab 1 top notch prospect and a able right handed MLB ready bat (That can play the field, sorry Matthew), it might be a smart move. As you'd still have Rincon and Crain that are proven, and also would have a sleeper stud closer in Travis Bowyer (11.65 K9 and 23 saves in AAA).

Maybe trade him back to SF for Cain, Hennessey, and Feliz! HaHa... that trade must eat SF fans ALIVE - imagine Cain and Liriano growing up together in a pitchers park!!!!

Also, with a rotation that's looking pretty set with Baker and Liriano joining Silva, Radke, and Johan... where do Durbin and Boof play? Another year in AAA? Do they need another year their after both posting solid #'s? Could one take a set-up role? Can they trade Loshe and Mays?

It's to early to tell, but it's a wealth of talent and with no help other then a few million in wiggle room and Kubel in sight for this horrible lineup, they might need to move some of this pitching for a couple bats.
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Postby joeg24 » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:01 am

looptid wrote:I wouldn't trade Nathan. He has been the best reliever in baseball since the start of the 2004 season. He just happens not to play in New York, Boston, or Los Angeles.


I agree, he's nasty and very fun to route for, however when we are losing 2-1 everynight...

I think Joe will get better too, he still looks nervous as ever out there.

The lineup will get little better on it's own, especially as the preseason 3-4 hitters were what 21 and 23 on opening day. That's pressure. Mauer showed he's got what it takes already, hopefully Justin has a better offseason then last (kid had like 3-4 ailments that were all weird). I would still of liked to work in a Soriano-like hitter into the mix (of corse not for Baker/Liriano). You add a nice hitter inbwteen the M&M boys and move Hunter to 6th and that team goes from crap to so-so pretty quick. A so-so lineup with that bull-pen and rotation, would be very hard to beat.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:54 am

brandnew wrote:Yeah, but the Twins were expecting big things out of him. I'm just saying that's a big reason they're not as good as everyone thought they would be. They have no slugger.

What can they do about that during the offseason? They have some major holes in that lineup..

And, why not trade Nathan? There are so many teams that are desperate for a closer, and the Twins have Crain, who can probably be a good closer, as well as Romero and Rincon who aren't too shabby. They could fill a need by trading Nathan. I don't know, Crain is unproven. IMO, they should trade Nathan for a bat.


You don't trade a top 5 closer coming off another 40 SV season and making only $2M per season.
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Postby Sultans of Squat » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:29 pm

Yoda wrote:You don't trade a top 5 closer coming off another 40 SV season and making only $2M per season.


Why not? Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do if you're ever gonna win.

Yes, Nathan is very valuable to the Twins in large part because he's affordable enough to them. But if they can actually get a good return on the trade market, they should probably do it. Afterall, they have a wealth of pitching talent, but is pretty dirt poor in offensive talent. And if they don't act when they can, even what they have now might become too expensive for them to keep before they're ready to go all the way.

Obviously, they'd much prefer to trade away guys like May and Lohse than Nathan, but it takes 2 to tango. If there's no market for May and/or Lohse, you can't force it. Who knows? With all the precedence of so-so/iffy SPs turning into stud closers, maybe the Twins might be better off giving Lohse a try at closer instead, if they can't find much trade value for him. As an RP that only goes an inning at a time, Lohse can probably crank his fastball up a notch or two and not have to rely on his less dependable stuff too much. Afterall, this is not fantasy, so it's not like the Twins don't have that option, which has yielded quite a few stud closers for other teams in the recent memory.
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Postby Havok1517 » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:45 pm

There really is no way Lohse could close unless he developed a Hoffman-esque copycat delivery where he hides his marginal fastball with his excellent chageup with the same delivery. But I doubt that will happen to that level. I believe the Twins do have some big problems, 1 is that the have a ton of pitching and OF prospects on the brink being major leaguers and no infield. In my opinion, I still think Cuddyer should move permanently to 2B (he'd be a top 5 2B), Bartlett is hopelessly overmatched by major league pitching and I see no signs of that stopping anytime soon. Also, the Twins only have Matt Moses and Terry Tiffee at 3B none which are anything more than simply serviceable major league corner men. Here is a list of all Twin pitchers in the major leagues and the pitchers that will be...

SP Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano, Brad Radke, Carlos Silva, Scott Baker, Chad Durbin, Grant Balfour, Joe Mays, Kyle Lohse.

RP Joe Nathan, Juan Rincon, Jesse Crain, J.C. Romero, Terry Mulholland, Matt Guerrier, Travis Bowyer, Boof Bonser, Glen Perkins, Adam Harben, Kyle Waldrop, Jay Rainville, Matt Fox, Anthony Swarzak, & Scott Taylor

The only possible positonal players the Twins have in the minors are Tiffee, Moses, Trevor Plouffe, and I guess Luis Rivas )who should never be a starting player).

I believe that Mulholland will retire after this year, Jacque Jone's option will hopefully be declined, and Mays & Lohse gone in a trade. Also, I think 2006 will be Radke's final year in Minnesota with Guerrier being released as well. I would not trade Nathan until his contract is up then insert Crain

With the current roster the main question marks remain at 3B and SS. The Twins need to make some deals, why not inqure about Boston's Hanley Ramirez who won't play unless Renteria leaves which won't be anytime soon. Or why not Colorado's Ian Stewart? Or Atlanta's Betemit or Marte (is he ever gonna start?). It would take some real creativity to not give up too much, but its possible for sure. They should really try and take advantage of pitching starved teams like Colorado, Texas, Tampa Bay, New York Mets (Glavine & Trachsel are old), Atlanta (Lohse would look good here), & Cincinnati.
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Postby Sultans of Squat » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:03 pm

Are they actually looking for a young 3B? One would think they should be able to find one for a deal given the wealth of 3B prospects out there. Maybe they can even trade for Ryan Howard to be DH/backup 1B after the Phillies decide they can't find a taker for Thome.
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Postby Havok1517 » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:17 pm

If they move Cuddyer to 2B for good and don't do the stupid thing of signing Mueller they will need a good 3B. I'm not sure what they will do, I don't like LeCroy at all either, but they have te pitching depth to make some moves for sure.
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