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Postby nikku88 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:36 am

I prefer H2H when it's a close league and against guys I know.
Just seems more interesting going up against a team each week.
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My apologies. I have a nephew named Anfernee, and I know how mad he gets when I call him Anthony. Almost as mad as I get when I think about the fact that my sister named him Anfernee.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:00 am

Much prefer roto. H2H adds another level of luck I don't want to deal with. When I draft the best team, I don't want to risk losing simply on the vagaries of whether my team is hot or not for any given week. I have to deal with that in fantasy football, which is fine. But which is also why fantasy football is something I do to pass the time until the next baseball season.

H2H may be more like "real" baseball, but I play fantasy to win. And any format that adds luck to the formula is one I don't prefer for the reasons of the original post and my fantasy football team last year (most points, below .500, missed out on playoffs).

And, honestly, I see winning a roto league as more rewarding. If you can win a title without the best team, how is it rewarding to know you were luckier than the other teams? Luck may play a role in roto - but much less so. When I win in roto, I know I had the best team and the win was earned, not some fluke based on being hot at the right time.
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Postby Gwyddbwyll » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:36 am

Bad luck quietstorm, sounds an unusually tight league. One of mine was like that until about a month or two ago but it was the most enjoyable one.

Your case aside, I dont think luck is a significantly greater factor in H2H than roto. It might be a bigger factor but injuries for example is a much greater one. Plus you *can* accomodate it in your strategy by being aware of player streakiness which is a real-life factor that is completely omitted in roto. Just like in real life, the *consistant* ball player is more valuable than an equivalent streaky one who is red hot for 2 games and cold for 8. You can also take advantages of streaks such as Geoff Jenkins and Noah Lowry .

If it really played such a great part, then I would expect to see greater variance in the leagues I'm involved in.. however I am top 2 in each of my four leagues.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:57 am

Gwyddbwyll wrote:Bad luck quietstorm, sounds an unusually tight league. One of mine was like that until about a month or two ago but it was the most enjoyable one.

Your case aside, I dont think luck is a significantly greater factor in H2H than roto. It might be a bigger factor but injuries for example is a much greater one. Plus you *can* accomodate it in your strategy by being aware of player streakiness which is a real-life factor that is completely omitted in roto. Just like in real life, the *consistant* ball player is more valuable than an equivalent streaky one who is red hot for 2 games and cold for 8. You can also take advantages of streaks such as Geoff Jenkins and Noah Lowry .

If it really played such a great part, then I would expect to see greater variance in the leagues I'm involved in.. however I am top 2 in each of my four leagues.


I'd wager that every team with the best stats in a roto league is currently winning their league.

Any instance wherein a team with the best stats is not winning their H2H league is evidence that luck plays a bigger role in H2H.

This isn't meant to denigrate teams doing well in H2H leagues. You obviously have to know what you're doing to do consistently well in any fantasy format. And great job being in 1st or 2nd in all 4 leagues. But, if you aren't 1st or 2nd in stats in all 4 leagues, then it is my contention that your position in the standings involves more luck than a team who is in 1st in a roto league - simce you wouldn't be in 1st in a roto league unless you actually had the best team.

Again, I'm not debating the extent of luck in fantasy. I'm simply stating that, in my opinion, luck plays much more of a role in H2H leagues than roto. I have to build the best team to win in roto. And when I win, I know I built the best team. But if I build the best team and don't win (as can happen in H2H), then please explain what other factors were involved instead of luck.
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Postby Gwyddbwyll » Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:20 am

I already did - streakiness.

A player can be redhot for 2 games and cold for 8 and have the same stats as a player who was consistant for 10 games. The consistant player is more valuable to the H2H or real-life MLB team giving them a chance to win every week.. however there is no such distinction made in roto.

In roto one team might be better than the other because they have Ensberg hitting 7 more homers at 3B Miggy Cabrera. But I dont believe they really predicted that nor do I consider Ensberg better than Miggy.

I agree luck probably plays a 'bigger' role but I dont think its significant.
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Postby BaseballFann0008 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:44 am

Madison wrote:Sorry to hear that. :-/

The pitfalls of H2H leagues. One of the reasons why I prefer roto. B-)
roto is the only way to go ;-D
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Postby rainman23 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:09 am

Luck is definitely overrated in H2H. Yeah, on a weekly basis you can win or lose when you don't deserve to. But over the long haul, the entire season, these things are going to tend to even out. If a guy loses week after week when he doesn't "deserve" to, then the guys he drafted are under-achieving, or wracked with injuries, or both. And that same team isn't going to be doing real well in Roto, either.

Frankly, I'd like to hear more about the numbers from the original poster. To be as dominant as he's suggesting he was, but to finish near the bottom...wow, that's statistically bizarre. And his numbers were that good...but he's got zero confidence going into the playoffs? I gotta think he knows his team has some holes.

I like both formats. But as long as Roto leagues don't do playoffs, it's kind of a no-brainer for me. Some of you guys may be having heated races for the title in your Roto league. But my bet is you've got about 8 other managers who have moved on to fantasy football, because their season is long over.
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Postby mamorris » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:13 am

One way I think Yahoo could improve their H2H leagues is by altering the number of teams that make the playoffs based on the number of teams in the league. For example, a 12-team league should have a 4-team H2H playoff system, to keep approximately in line with MLB's system. I don't think .500 teams should be making the playoffs in fantasy baseball, since it's almost impossible to do so in real baseball (yeah yeah, the Padres, but that's more to do with divisional play than anything else). Apart from that, I completely agree with kentx, in that H2H is much closer to real baseball, which is what I love in a fantasy league. That doesn't stop me from playing a few roto leagues as well, since I like to win. ;)
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Postby JTWood » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:09 pm

The tension that H2H creates in its scheduling process is - by itself - enough to make H2H more exciting than roto.

I would stress, though, that the apparent scoring imbalance in your league is a very good reason to drop it. Scoring imbalances are the number-one risk of playing in a points league because an imbalance dictates strategy, and that lessens the owner interest in a league.
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Postby Apollo » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:25 pm

I think a H2H league with daily changes has way more skill involved than a Roto league. You can draft a good team in a roto league and, other than replacing injured players, sit on it all year and be near the top. In H2H, if you're doing that, you're going to lose--you've gotta play the matchups, keep an eye on what stat categories you need to win the week, perhaps rotate in a subpar player because he's more likely to pick up that one category you need on the last day. Maybe you even bench Johan Santana because, hey, you're already winning ERA and WHIP and wins, and you don't want to risk him getting blown up in exchange just for a few K's.

When I see people complain about having the best team in a H2H league and losing, I don't think they're unlucky, I think they did a lousy job of playing week in and week out.

The only time I'll buy the luck argument in H2H is when someone dominates the regular season and loses in the playoffs. Just like real baseball, the playoffs are often a crapshoot.
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