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NL MVP?

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NL MVP

Pujols
43
24%
Pujols
0
No votes
Pujols
43
24%
Pujols
43
24%
Lee
50
27%
Andruw
0
No votes
Miggy
2
1%
Lee
0
No votes
Miggy
1
1%
 
Total votes : 182

Postby Jack-In-A-Box » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:18 am

Tavish wrote:Unfortunately the same doesn't apply here. Jones hasn't put up the same numbers as Pujols and both of the teams are going to make the playoffs. Jones supporters seem to want to give him the award because his team is going to win their division by only 5 games versus the 15 the Cards are going to win by. Jones supporters are punishing Pujols because he has helped his team win more games. Didn't you claim to support the exact opposite in your statement? Shouldn't the player on the team that won more games get more credit?


Yes, St.Louis has a better record. And so because of that you say Pujols helped his team more because of that. But St.Louis didn't lose most of their pitching staff to injuries. Pujols almost always had one of his big bat buddies behind him for protection. Edmonds has missed only 20 games all year. A.Jones has had to count on rookies batting behind him for protection. Braves have had as many as 16 rookies on the roster at one time. A.Jones' avg can't be expected to be .300+ with no protection around him.


Saying if Pujols were a Brave that he would have done the same thing isn't true. Pujols couldn't help you win games in the OF like Andruw can. Almost any major leaguer can play 1B. Except Piazza. What Andruw does with his glove for that team also goes into how valuable a player is. Both Lee, Pujols are gold glove 1B probably, but you can get a good defensive 1B pretty darn near anywhere. A game changing CF, not so easy to come by. Ask the Yankees. There's more to MVP than just who is the best hitter. Team record, defense, all that has to be accounted for. Which is why I think Andruw has as good a chance to win MVP as Pujols, Lee.



Tavish wrote:
I asked this before but didn't get much of a response from those using Jones' position as a way to overcome his disadvantage offensively. In your opinion how much more valuable is a Gold Glove calibre CF compared to a Gold Glove calibre 1B strictly on defensive merit? How many more runs does that save, how many more games does that win? There is definitely an advantage for Jones in this regard but I don't think its nearly as much as people are making it out to be.



In my opinion a Gold glove CF vs a Gold glove 1B isn't close. How many teams lose games that often due to a botched play from the 1B? Just about every team in the majors has more than adequate defensive 1B. It's rare to have a guy in CF that is constantly saving the team runs. What isn't seen in the stats is how many times Andruw keeps runners from going 1st to 3rd. How many times does he keeps runners from going home on a medium fly ball? You'd go on J.Damon all day. How many base hits does he steal after a long run? See to me, when you see a good play on defense from a 1B he has to move 2,3 steps left/right and snag a liner or make a scoop on a poorly thrown ball from SS and or occasionally make a play near the stands and then all the sudden he's a great defensive 1B. OF'ers and CF'ers especially have to constantly make the diving catch, take the right angle or it's over their head, run into the wall. I'm sure if you've played softball or baseball with just friends you knew who was the guy going to play 1B... the guy that sucked the most on defense. Why? Because its a fairly easy position to play. How many games have the Yankees lost this year because they have a CF who can't catch, can't take the right angle, can't throw? We've all seen the highlights. We all know its the biggest weakness they have. You can't just replace a CF'er with anybody. You can at 1B though.

Edit: Also to add... Look at how badly the Twins have fallen without T.Hunter. Not even in WC contention.

Just for the record I'm not saying A.Jones should win the MVP. But to read comments that it would be a sham, or a joke or a poor err in judgment by the writers doesn't sit well with me. To me all 3 are deserving. Pujols is probably the best player in the NL, if not all of baseball. Lee is having a miracle season for him but you can't ignore how the Cubs are still not winning. Jones is having a miracle season in terms of HR,RBI and he's had to do it on a team that almost everyone here and across the country would say is nothing more than a AAA team in a ML Braves uni. All 3 are deserving in their own respects. To dog Andruw because he's batting .275ish and that is the reason he shouldn't win, ignoring everything else he's done to make a AAA team a playoff team, to me is ludicrous.
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Postby swingaway » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:24 am

Andruw for mvp take him out and where would the braves be? I tell you where not even close the playoffs. Take pujols out you still at least have guys that ca help you and take into account the cards pitching staff probably won more games for them tha pujols has this year. Take Andrew out and have their average pitching staff try to beat you it wont.
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Postby Red Stripe » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:22 am

I was just wondering, is there something wrong with the poll besides Pujols, Miggy, and Lee being listed more than once. From the discussion here I've noticed a lot of people are liking Jones for MVP but he has 0 votes. Strange. :-?
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Postby eftda » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:29 am

Red Stripe wrote:I was just wondering, is there something wrong with the poll besides Pujols, Miggy, and Lee being listed more than once. From the discussion here I've noticed a lot of people are liking Jones for MVP but he has 0 votes. Strange. :-?



ScrappyDoo wrote:Haha I dont know why its doing that, I tried it twice but its giving multiple entries for each. Just vote for the same one i guess. Sorry.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:15 am

Anybody had a Jones sighting? The guy has disappeared in Sept.
.227 avg, 311 oba. The longer the season goes, the farther Jones is from getting gift mvp votes. If Jones somehow wins (writer's all get hammered night before filling out ballots), it truly will be one of the worst votes ever.

There are 13 guys in NL with more Win Shares.
He is only a DOZEN behind Lee/Pujols.
Jones has fallen to 9th in Runs Created.
Jones is 19th in RC/27.

BGiles has down more for SD, then Jones has Atlanta.
I could name 5 better mvps in the NL.

ESPN seems to be backing off the Jones bandwagon. Perhaps they have sobered up.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:20 am

But he is still winning HR right. ;-7
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Postby Yoda » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:29 am

HOOTIE wrote:Anybody had a Jones sighting? The guy has disappeared in Sept.
.227 avg, 311 oba. The longer the season goes, the farther Jones is from getting gift mvp votes. If Jones somehow wins (writer's all get hammered night before filling out ballots), it truly will be one of the worst votes ever.

There are 13 guys in NL with more Win Shares.
He is only a DOZEN behind Lee/Pujols.
Jones has fallen to 9th in Runs Created.
Jones is 19th in RC/27.

BGiles has down more for SD, then Jones has Atlanta.
I could name 5 better mvps in the NL.

ESPN seems to be backing off the Jones bandwagon. Perhaps they have sobered up.


I knew Jones couldn't possibly lay off those breaking pitches out of the zone for an entire season. :-D
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Postby Red Stripe » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:49 am

eftda wrote:
Red Stripe wrote:I was just wondering, is there something wrong with the poll besides Pujols, Miggy, and Lee being listed more than once. From the discussion here I've noticed a lot of people are liking Jones for MVP but he has 0 votes. Strange. :-?



ScrappyDoo wrote:Haha I dont know why its doing that, I tried it twice but its giving multiple entries for each. Just vote for the same one i guess. Sorry.


That didn't really answer my question, I was wondering why Jones has no votes when it's clear that a lot of people like him for MVP. I know why Pujols, Miggy, and Lee are all listed multiple times which that ScrappyDoo quote answered.
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